Abortion discussion

DPDfuzzy

Deathling
May 30, 2019
23
39
13
Detroit
BETAAAAAAAAAAA MAAAAAAAAAALE!!!!
It was your choice and you should have never let her have an abortion.


Similar to saying "I killed 10 people in my city, how does that affect you in your own city?"
Which is fine, I'll answer it.
The child can be an asset for the whole community. That's why it's illegal for parents to kill their already born child. Why? Because someone else might want to take and care about that child. Also because you are not the child. They are a different person from their parents.
The survival of an individual depends on the survival of the whole community. If the community starts falling apart, so will the individuals of that community.


Your child is primarily your own responsibility. Just like my child is, will be, primarily my own responsibility.
I didn't milk your sperm and inject it into your girlfriend. That's not how it works.
I'm sorry what? Did you really type 'beta male' in caps? Is that your intention with it... You definitely lost me with that one.
You're not to be taken seriously with little bullshit like that... But if you'd like, go re-read the OP.. Y then mine. You just may see that '
child being my responsibility' wasn't THE argument.. Nor was it my argument. Lastly if you believe the father has rights to veto a woman's abortion you're a fucking idiot. But you were already one of those when you started commenting.
 

Genevieve

There I was, guts splatted all over my titties...
Jul 17, 2019
45
42
18
The County Morgue
I didn't ask you to explain it. I asked you to answer the question.
I don't care, the question is completely invalid.

I wouldn't say that.
Yet you would say that "one abortion is too many." One abortion could be for any reason, even placental abruption (and considering I'm sure you never looked into issues during pregnancy, placental abruption is when the placenta separates from the uterine wall and doesn't supply enough oxygen, and if it's severe enough, the baby has to be taken out. Yes, there are conditions that affect the baby but not the mother, shocker).

But, it doesn't.
Neither does Bahrain. Oh, and by the way, if India's GDP makes you think they don't have things like internet and electronics, then I'd like to refer you to all the creepy Indians that send me weird DM's on Instagram.

Oh, and Ireland's GDP is 69.3K as of 2017, so GDP=/=abortion stance

It said that abortion is around 800-900 after they changed the law. You want to say that those numbers are after the legalized abortion?
If you need more numbers, I just found this whole chart.
The article I sent was just before it was legalized (it was just legalized in the end of May, the article was early May).
However, even with the legalization, there are still parts of the legislation that do not make it fully accessible, nor does it cover all of Ireland.

The point is that you're weak and would give up on your child too easily.
The point is I wouldn't even be given a chance to raise my child after prison. You like to act like someone can walk out of prison to resume their daily normal lives. Usually, after you're incarcerated, you:
  • Are unable to obtain a job due to your criminal record
  • Have no money, and your house has most likely been foreclosed if you're living alone (with no one to pay off the cost of living)
  • Have lost custody of your child and even if they saw you, likely have lost all respect from your child
  • Have a hard time re-navigating the outside world
  • Don't have the resources to seek treatment (if the charge was drug related)
  • Can't even go back to school (they, too, do background checks and will not admit you)
It's not weakness, it's literal inability. The point is you have no idea what you're even talking about.

I already explained that by the time a woman takes a day-after pill, she's already in the 0.001%, add to that the 5% chance of a day-after pill failing, and make your own calculation.
Looks like we need to dumb it down further.
Prevention is its own chance. Say the birth control fails, or even better: you're on the placebos (in case you weren't aware, there's placebos in there, too, and will not prevent a pregnancy). The man wears a condom. It fails or breaks. The chance of prevention has already been done. You've tried to prevent it, it's already played out. The egg is fertilized. Now your only chances are with the day-after pill.

Let's now give it a visual you might start to understand.
You have two bags filled with multicolored balls. In each, you have 2 red, 2 green, 2 blue, 2 yellow and 2 white. Let's say the 2 white is the chance the egg is fertilized (all prevention methods fail), while the colored balls are the chances it works. You mix the bag up and grab out a white ball. Now, you grab from the second bag, which is the chance the day-after-pill works. White is once again the chance it fails, the rest are success. You mix it up again. You grab another white ball. Fetus is still growing. Now you're stuck either aborting or carrying all 9 months to give the baby away because you are unable to raise the child.

Now allow me to explain birth control methods and day-after pills, as well as accessibility.

Birth control is simply to prevent the egg from ever getting fertilized in the first place. These methods, from most to least accessible, are:
Condoms
Female condoms
Birth control pills
IUD's

How the birth control pills work is they add more estrogen and progestin into the bloodstream, preventing ovulation and building a thick mucus inside the cervix. If not taken right at the same time every day, the egg is able to move and the wall doesn't rebuild (it's usually cleaned out, because the vagina is self-cleaning). However, the pill can also be less effective or ineffective if you have norovirus (or are just generally vomiting and/or having diarrhea for a couple days), taking certain medications (such as antibiotics, antifungals, anti-seizure meds or St. John's Wort), or simply from being overweight. While they say the effectiveness of the pill is 99%, that's only if you are perfect at taking it, aren't overweight, aren't taking other medication, are taking estrogen with the pills, and at a normal weight. Generally, the effectiveness on estrogen-containing pills is closer to 90%, even lower if you do not take an estrogen-containing pill (progestin only pill) aka the "mini pill." People who are prone to migraines are at higher risk of a stroke if they take estrogen-containing pills.

The day-after pill is not a method as to prevent the egg from fertilizing, but a way to stop it from further growing. The job of the day-after pill is to expel the already-fertilized egg (or embryo) as to stop it from becoming a fetus. The day-after pill is also not as accessible, especially to people with less money. These go for about $40 a dose (that whole big box only has one pill), may or may not require a prescription (depending on where you are), and usually contain the same factors that reduce their effectiveness as birth control pills (these just have a higher amount of the hormones, including estrogen, which once again, is not good for people with migraines). However, now time is even more important, as these get less and less effective by the minute. Your chances MIGHT be higher if you have them right there and are able to take them as soon as you find out there's a chance your egg could've been fertilized, but normally, that's not everyone's situation.

If that is true, then the problem is in doctors, or whoever is making the examinations.
You could hire the best doctor or examiner and they could still have serious trouble telling who has and has not induced their own miscarriages. Not every tumble down the stairs shows, natural ways usually aren't detected at all, and depending on when they even show up to a hospital (or even if), the drug may no longer be in the bloodstream.

Lol, I heard this often. You are also a group of cells. Your consciousness is a collection of cells working together. If we can remove fetus, as a group of cells, then it should be legal for me to remove you, since you're just a group of cells.
Let's dumb down even further.
Fetuses are a group of stem cells, or cells with no assigned role, regardless if it takes the shape of anything yet. As the fetus develops, the cells are assigned roles. The placenta is designed to give the cells fuel and oxygen from the mother to survive and develop. All the cells are doing in that timeframe where they allow for abortion is multiplying. And if we really need to get into this argument, if you say we shouldn't be allowed to remove a fetus simply because even fully grown humans are made up of cells, better hope you never get cancer. If I'm your doctor, I legally can't take your tumor out, or my veterinarian relative can't take the tumor out of your pet(s), because we can't remove anything that's made up of cells of any kind. So it's terminal, have fun with your last days on Earth, buddy.

The fetus is connected to her, but it's not her body. And if it her body, the fetus, then the woman would also be a cluster of cells, which would make it legal for me to remove her (the mother).
Once again, that malignant tumor is connected to a cancer patient, but isn't their body. Looks like they're dying.

And yes, that's exactly how backwards your logic sounds.

Gang rapes on campus parking lots in decent 'anti-rape' areas while police is watching is not something that often happens. Unless we're talking about UK, or Sweden.
I'm not sure if you know this, but literally no sane location endorses rape. Also, so what are you saying, we should just blow her situation off because campuses are such safe places?

Let me ask you something. Did you date them longer than 3 months without having sex? How about a year? By that time, one should be able to tell a difference between a rapist and a non-rapist.
Oh, this is fun. Not sure if you need my abusive ex's story or the ex-friend that tried to rape me in my other friend's own home, so here you go:
ABUSIVE EX:
Dated a year and a half, no sex at all. He tried to push me to, but I didn't want to. Didn't think he was abusive when we met (seemed like a nice guy, good family), only stayed as long as I did because he threatened to kill himself if I left, he kept me from having friends, and physically harmed me despite constant reminders that he'd protect me.

EX-FRIEND
Never dated, was a friend of a friend I trusted for a long time (trust was lost later on), seemed cool for the first few days I knew him, tried to rape me while I was recovering out of the hospital from nearly dying from a condition I have. Pinned me down, I was lucky enough to have been able to move my leg enough to kick him in the crotch to escape. Was still abstinent at the time, was even way before I met the abusive ex mentioned above. Friends that knew this guy for even longer than I did doubted my story and tried to defend him.

My son is with my fiance who I've been with for years.

Any more questions on my personal life to try to make storytime examples to pick at straws for an argument or would you like to have a factual debate?

You seem like the kind of guy who dishes out dark humor and expects everyone to get it, but once other people dish out dark humor back, you take it seriously and personally. Those commentators are literally joking, especially because they know it's more anti-abortion propaganda type shit. Chill.
 

Lorencio

Schizo
Sep 22, 2018
1,218
1,248
113
28
White House
I don't care, the question is completely invalid.
It was a simple question and perfectly valid.
Since you don't want to answer it, I'll make my response regardless.
The answer is: you're been lied to and brainwashed to think that evil is good.

Yet you would say that "one abortion is too many." One abortion could be for any reason, even placental abruption (and considering I'm sure you never looked into issues during pregnancy, placental abruption is when the placenta separates from the uterine wall and doesn't supply enough oxygen, and if it's severe enough, the baby has to be taken out. Yes, there are conditions that affect the baby but not the mother, shocker).
We were talking about averages. The average of 1 abortion per women is too much. Even 1 abortion to million of people is too much unless that abortion was absolutely necessary (the necessity of which I already discussed).

Neither does Bahrain. Oh, and by the way, if India's GDP makes you think they don't have things like internet and electronics, then I'd like to refer you to all the creepy Indians that send me weird DM's on Instagram.
Very simple explanation.
There are more than billion of them, so the amount of them spamming you and women like you is still small compare to the whole population.
Second explanation is rapid development of cheap phones and internet markets in India.

Oh, and Ireland's GDP is 69.3K as of 2017, so GDP=/=abortion stance
You said it yourself that you can't provide me with data about Ireland's abortion statistics in previous years. The necessary data for making comparisons and thus the final conclusions.

If you need more numbers, I just found this whole chart.
What happened to the first few columns?

The article I sent was just before it was legalized (it was just legalized in the end of May, the article was early May).
Then what was the whole point of that article and of you linking it?

Cool.

gettyimages-967837542_0.jpg


It's not your body and not your choice.

The point is I wouldn't even be given a chance to raise my child after prison. You like to act like someone can walk out of prison to resume their daily normal lives. Usually, after you're incarcerated, you:
  • Are unable to obtain a job due to your criminal record
  • Have no money, and your house has most likely been foreclosed if you're living alone (with no one to pay off the cost of living)
  • Have lost custody of your child and even if they saw you, likely have lost all respect from your child
  • Have a hard time re-navigating the outside world
  • Don't have the resources to seek treatment (if the charge was drug related)
  • Can't even go back to school (they, too, do background checks and will not admit you)
It's not weakness, it's literal inability. The point is you have no idea what you're even talking about.
No. The point is that you're a beta-female.
1) there are still jobs that will hire you. If if there aren't there are plenty of things you can do yourself to make money. Learn to make and sell things, and you'll never need someone to employ you. If job is the problem, then you should wait until you die from hunger, or until some hobo kills you.
2) don't live alone. That was already a mistake. Having baby with someone who would leave you like that.
3) that's still shouldn't stop you for carrying about them. And even if they do run away from you, that's okay. It means that they can take care of themselves. Killing yourself is certainly not the solution.
4) please...
5) get resources, or attempt to get them until something kills you
6) you don't need school, especially since you're broke and will not get out of debt.

Looks like we need to dumb it down further.
Prevention is its own chance. Say the birth control fails, or even better: you're on the placebos (in case you weren't aware, there's placebos in there, too, and will not prevent a pregnancy). The man wears a condom. It fails or breaks. The chance of prevention has already been done. You've tried to prevent it, it's already played out. The egg is fertilized. Now your only chances are with the day-after pill.
This will be the third time I'm repeating myself.
With each additional step, the chances increase geometrically. Meaning that they do not stack like 5% + 3% + x. No, they multiply and with each step they get much lower (or higher). Meaning that by the time a woman has passed though all the steps and needs to take the day-after pill, the chances are still 5% of her getting pregnant, but the overall chances (including all the previous steps) are around 0.00001%.

You could hire the best doctor or examiner and they could still have serious trouble telling who has and has not induced their own miscarriages. Not every tumble down the stairs shows, natural ways usually aren't detected at all, and depending on when they even show up to a hospital (or even if), the drug may no longer be in the bloodstream.
That's bs. All we need to do is punish when doctors are certain they know what the cause is. If they can't diagnose the problems, then you can punish the woman.

Fetuses are a group of stem cells, or cells with no assigned role, regardless if it takes the shape of anything yet.
That's a lie.
Every cell a body produces serves some function.
Which is proven by your next statement:
As the fetus develops, the cells are assigned roles.
If the cells didn't have any function at first, they wouldn't develop themselves into some new function. Development is exactly the primary function every cell does, and thus every living form. That's what makes things alive, it's the ability to develop.

And if we really need to get into this argument, if you say we shouldn't be allowed to remove a fetus simply because even fully grown humans are made up of cells, better hope you never get cancer. If I'm your doctor, I legally can't take your tumor out, or my veterinarian relative can't take the tumor out of your pet(s), because we can't remove anything that's made up of cells of any kind. So it's terminal, have fun with your last days on Earth, buddy.
No. People kill animals, or plants everyday. They are all groups of cells, they are all alive. We eat them.
If that tumor had a potential of becoming a fully functioning human being, then we should not remove that tumor from your body.
Since most of tumors do not do that, we should remove them.
Fetuses and tumors are both groups of cells, but the difference is that fetus is a potential human, while tumor is not.
Do you see the difference?

Once again, that malignant tumor is connected to a cancer patient, but isn't their body. Looks like they're dying.
It is. But, the tumor does not have a potential to become a human being.

I'm not sure if you know this, but literally no sane location endorses rape. Also, so what are you saying, we should just blow her situation off because campuses are such safe places?
"No sane location"... there you have it. The location that are "insane" are pro-rape. And those locations exist.
By 'pro-rape' I mean locations with high likelihood of you getting raped.

Oh, this is fun. Not sure if you need my abusive ex's story or the ex-friend that tried to rape me in my other friend's own home, so here you go:
ABUSIVE EX:
Dated a year and a half, no sex at all. He tried to push me to, but I didn't want to. Didn't think he was abusive when we met (seemed like a nice guy, good family), only stayed as long as I did because he threatened to kill himself if I left, he kept me from having friends, and physically harmed me despite constant reminders that he'd protect me.
There you have it.

EX-FRIEND
Never dated, was a friend of a friend I trusted for a long time (trust was lost later on), seemed cool for the first few days I knew him, tried to rape me while I was recovering out of the hospital from nearly dying from a condition I have. Pinned me down, I was lucky enough to have been able to move my leg enough to kick him in the crotch to escape. Was still abstinent at the time, was even way before I met the abusive ex mentioned above. Friends that knew this guy for even longer than I did doubted my story and tried to defend him.
You said "I could've saved myself SO much trouble with past relationships". Doesn't sound like a relationship.
I'm glad you were able to ran away.
I don't know what kind of friends you had.
If I'm getting this correctly, you're saying that rape can happen to anyone anytime. To which I agree. But, I also say that there are many other security steps of individual responsibility that everyone should make.

My son is with my fiance who I've been with for years.
Is that a step-father?

You seem like the kind of guy who dishes out dark humor and expects everyone to get it, but once other people dish out dark humor back, you take it seriously and personally. Those commentators are literally joking, especially because they know it's more anti-abortion propaganda type shit. Chill.
I think they're not. Even if they were joking, there are limits to dark humor. You don't see many comedians joking about raping kids, unless there is some truth to it and to the pedo audience who are laughing.
 

Abyss

Hell_Kitty666's daddy.
VIP
Sep 4, 2019
2,210
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I already gave out my 2 cents on previous pages in this thread but as someone who grew up without parents i can only say, if you dont want your kid dont bond with him/her after they are born just to throw them away like trash afterwards. Either send them to adoption or just have no consensual sex if your goal is not to get pregnant forgoing any kind of contraceptive, because accidents might happen, and then its just another life or another possibility of a life that gets wasted because you acted out on instinct instead of reasonable. If you have sex without the goal to procreate in mind and cant be bothered to use any contraceptives because "NAH IM GOOD, THAT ONLY HAPPENS TO OTHER PEOPLE NOT ME LOL" then it's all on your head after that. Dont want them, then dont go out of your way to possibly screw up and ending up making them. Simple as that. I've heard of many cases in my area where women lie and say they were drugged and raped just to get justification to abort, just to have the same story repeat itself all over again later, and thats fucking scummy. Biggest cop out ever. Think with your head instead of your gonads basically.
 

Genevieve

There I was, guts splatted all over my titties...
Jul 17, 2019
45
42
18
The County Morgue
Since you don't want to answer it, I'll make my response regardless.
The answer is: you're been lied to and brainwashed to think that evil is good.
Last I checked, an opinion I've decided on myself with no other outside influence isn't brainwashing.

The average of 1 abortion per women is too much. Even 1 abortion to million of people is too much unless that abortion was absolutely necessary (the necessity of which I already discussed).
Except the abortion-to-woman ratio is definitely not 1 abortion per woman. In fact, it's literally less than 50%. And just saying, your original post DID state that you thought the woman should, in fact, sacrifice herself if her one pregnancy that could kill her is the only baby she'd ever have, as if the fetus holds more of an importance than her, as if she is just a mere husk of a person and the fetus is Jesus himself.

What happened to the first few columns?
The documentation was likely lost. I'm not the guy that compiled the data, don't ask me.

Then what was the whole point of that article and of you linking it?
Because even before Ireland decided to make legal, abortion was still huge, widely done. That 800+ was not counting the ones that were legally done as to save the mother's life (which was the only way someone could legally obtain one before). They never had it legalized, but abortion rates still grew and grew until the dropoff you saw in that chart.

It's not your body and not your choice.
Except it is.
If a woman dies, her whole body dies, too. Heart rate stops, organs shut down, all that.
If the fetus cannot survive outside the mother's body, it's not independent of her body and is, therefore, part of her body.
Once it is capable of surviving independently from the mother, it is its own entity.

No. The point is that you're a beta-female.
1) there are still jobs that will hire you. If if there aren't there are plenty of things you can do yourself to make money. Learn to make and sell things, and you'll never need someone to employ you. If job is the problem, then you should wait until you die from hunger, or until some hobo kills you.
2) don't live alone. That was already a mistake. Having baby with someone who would leave you like that.
3) that's still shouldn't stop you for carrying about them. And even if they do run away from you, that's okay. It means that they can take care of themselves. Killing yourself is certainly not the solution.
4) please...
5) get resources, or attempt to get them until something kills you
6) you don't need school, especially since you're broke and will not get out of debt.
The point is you still have no idea what you're talking about
  1. Not even grocery stores will take you if you have jail time on your record. I'm currently a cake decorator until I can find a job that fits my area of study, and someone tried to apply where I worked. The minute the background check on her came back with a felony, she was instantly turned down. In your example, you said imprisoned for 10 years, which fits the description of a felony, and I wouldn't find a job anywhere. Making and selling doesn't always work out well, and I know because my mother used to be into making and selling jewelry, but barely sold anything. Dying of hunger is too slow and miserable, and a hobo killing me would not be a decent way to go.
  2. Not everyone plans on getting separated/divorced. They'll have a baby, realize things aren't working out after the fact and separate.
  3. You can care about anyone, doesn't mean they'll ever want you in their life ever again. Idk about when you made the association that people who go to jail aren't good people, but I made it pretty young. Example: my fiance's mother was a druggie and a cheater. Never went to jail, but got caught by his father having sex in a Blockbuster with an employee. They divorced and he never wanted and still does not want to see her ever again, and she basically made my fiance have a lack of trust in most women. I think he said he was about 8 years old when it happened, so he wasn't at a stage where he could care for himself. His dad also just remarried last year to a woman I trust far more, just in case you wanted to know.
  4. 10 years in jail. Idk dude, I'd be so used to prison life and all the paranoia that goes with it that quite frankly, I'd have no idea what to do once I'm free. It's pretty legit.
  5. Often, those resources are money, which I will point you back to statement 1 for. While I'm not sure how state aid works, I can only guess they don't look too highly on felons. I'd die before getting any help or any way to get help.
  6. There you have it, no money, no school, no way to leave a shithole lifestyle.

This will be the third time I'm repeating myself.
With each additional step, the chances increase geometrically. Meaning that they do not stack like 5% + 3% + x. No, they multiply and with each step they get much lower (or higher). Meaning that by the time a woman has passed though all the steps and needs to take the day-after pill, the chances are still 5% of her getting pregnant, but the overall chances (including all the previous steps) are around 0.00001%.
No... They really don't... That's not at all how statistics work. I've explained this in the simplest way I could and you still refuse to accept it. Took a whole statistics course to have someone think I don't know how it works. Smdh.

That's bs. All we need to do is punish when doctors are certain they know what the cause is. If they can't diagnose the problems, then you can punish the woman.
You basically just said exactly what's wrong with that system.
They can't come up with a reason as to the miscarriage, unsure if it's self-induced or just happened, so they just punish the woman, even if she truthfully said it was spontaneous because they can't believe what the woman says.

That's a lie.
Every cell a body produces serves some function.
Except stem cells don't until they're given one. In the meantime, they're just there to multiply. That multiplication and openness to receiving a function is why they're used in injury repair and prosthetics. That's it. Their function is TBD based on where they are located, whether they become skin, heart, lungs, etc.
1566337375079.png


Development is exactly the primary function every cell does, and thus every living form. That's what makes things alive, it's the ability to develop.
There are six primary functions and the closest to development is mitosis. That's really it.
1566337468540.png


f that tumor had a potential of becoming a fully functioning human being, then we should not remove that tumor from your body.
Since most of tumors do not do that, we should remove them.
Fetuses and tumors are both groups of cells, but the difference is that fetus is a potential human, while tumor is not.
Do you see the difference?
But your argument is that you can't just remove something on the grounds of being lumps of cells because everything is made up of cells. Using that backwards logic, malignant tumors and melanoma should not be touched. Also, you said it right there: fetuses have the POTENTIAL to become a human being. They are not yet one. Abortion is not taking a life, it's preventing it from becoming a life.

The location that are "insane" are pro-rape. And those locations exist.
By 'pro-rape' I mean locations with high likelihood of you getting raped.
Everywhere has a high likeliness of someone getting raped because rapists don't care where they rape, they just care about the power high. Therefore, by your definition, everywhere is pro-rape. Not even a doctor's office is safe, not even a police station (yes, even cops can be terrible people).

There you have it.
You do realize I said I knew the red flags but was afraid to leave him because he was literally insane, right? Based on how he was with me, I would've thought he'd come after me after the breakup (which he did, in fact, attempt. He showed up at my workplace, luckily while I was not there, and he continues to stalk me to this day). He is why my fiance keeps a gun stashed, since he has a FOID card. He's a legal gun owner and has his CCW permit. While I'm lucky to have found someone genuinely dedicated to protecting me and our son at all costs, he's the only one of him out there.

"I could've saved myself SO much trouble with past relationships". Doesn't sound like a relationship.
I'm glad you were able to ran away.
I don't know what kind of friends you had.
If I'm getting this correctly, you're saying that rape can happen to anyone anytime. To which I agree. But, I also say that there are many other security steps of individual responsibility that everyone should make.
Relationship can mean anything, including friendships and acquaintances. And yes, rape can happen to anyone anytime by anyone, and while there are MANY security steps one can take, it doesn't necessarily mean they will work in the situation they're in.

Is that a step-father?
No, my fiance is the biological father of my son.

I think they're not. Even if they were joking, there are limits to dark humor. You don't see many comedians joking about raping kids, unless there is some truth to it and to the pedo audience who are laughing.
You'd be surprised how often rape has been used as a punchline. Daniel Tosh has had to apologize to the public for a rape joke, Dapper Laughs had a gig cancelled after 1,000 people signed a petition against him after he made a joke that someone was "gagging for a rape." If you need to see how bad dark humor can get, watch Fire In The Maternity Ward on Netflix (it's done by a comedian named Anthony Jeselnik). You can probably already tell it's pretty dark from the title (and I made the mistake of watching this not long after having my son, stupid idea, pregnancy brain fog sticks around a bit). And if you need more personal experience in seeing how people can get dark, I've had someone joke to an anti-abortionist that they were getting their 10th abortion that week. So yes, trust me, they were, in fact, joking. Dark as all fuck, definitely.

Personally speaking, while I'd never get an abortion (and never have), I respect other people's decisions if they choose to because it's not my place to judge, regardless if it's because the mother's at risk, the fetus is, or they just aren't ready financially or in life. And adoption is a literal heartbreaker because the moment you give birth, maternal instinct hits like a fucking boulder.

But from my own experience being pro-choice, no, it does not mean I would mosh pit-style stomp on a fetus or toss it to a wall and see if it sticks. Then again, I know you're gonna use this one against me, I'm also a person of science and know to treat organisms with respect, even treating a fetal pig with care during dissection. Just how it is.
 
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