Abortion discussion

Lorencio

Is this real life?
Sep 22, 2018
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Okay let's really get in on this quote.
You're saying a smart and responsible woman plans her baby. Okay, let's look at two situations.
One woman has a baby when her and her husband planned to. They go through it all, they have the baby, they keep the baby. She starts drinking heavily and abuses her child. According to you, she's smart and responsible because she had her baby when she and her husband chose it was time to do so.
Another woman, on the other hand, has a baby unplanned. She also keeps the baby, and she isn't abusive or a drinker. According to you, she's an irresponsible dunce just because it was unplanned.
A third woman gets pregnant after her first time but took proper methods of preventative control, including a day-after pill that failed (because as you would not know this, the pill CAN STILL fail and the effectiveness varies based on body type and time after). She is living in the United States (which is a shithole but you choose to acknowledge it as above that) and is not ready to have a baby (let's say she's still in school). Let me guess, she's irresponsible and stupid simply because she had sex once?
I think you have some re-evaluation on what responsible and smart is.
Case 1: The woman was smart and responsible about how to have her child, but not how to raise him. The later is about parenting. She could also be irresponsible and dumb about her health, wealth, family, and so on...
Case 2: The woman is dumb and irresponsible about having her child, but not about parenting.
Case 3: "Let me guess, she's irresponsible and stupid simply because she had sex once?" She should have never had sex with someone she would not be prepared to have a child with. If you're gonna fuck young, then be ready for the consequences.
The problem with this is if you allow people this excuse, they will exploit it by saying "Well I did everything right and it just happened... for the sixth time". Please...
Bonus case: Girl, if you think that USA is a shithole YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT A SHITHOLE IS! If you are able to write on DA, meaning you have IT equipment, electricity, internet, and/or if you have working plumbing and enough water and food to get fat.... you're not poor, nor you live in a shithole environment.
This is how a shithole looks like. This is Nigeria.

Poverty.jpg


If you could read, I provided two. In fact, you quoted them both in.
Sry, I didn't see that the links were embedded in "CDC" and "NCBI".

I provided that... It's literally happening in places where abortion is illegal. You just chose to plug your ears and scream simply because they weren't in the United States, where most states still have legal abortion.
Here's what I want to see. I want to see a place which is not a shithole, where making abortions illegal did not reduce the amount of abortions people have. If you can show me this, then we can move to thinking of another solution.

Considering how women get treated in prisons, and the guilt women DO face after having an abortion (because shocker, women can and do still feel guilty about having one), yes, I would actually rather die than face x years in prison.
Lol, that's weak. Most people would disagree with this, proved by the amount of people in prisons.
Are you a mother?

Soooo America?
North America is not a shithole. If you think this, you have no clue how bad it can be.

Because surprisingly, we have a higher birthrate than China, which I have no doubt you'd consider a shithole.
I don't. China is actually opening factories in my country because of cheap labor. Imagine that... and we are far away from Nigeria state of shithole.

Just saying: population density does not necessarily correlate to the birthrate, nor does it correlate with abortion rate.
I don't recall saying that it does (the population density).

In fact, Nigeria's abortion rate is lower than ours. Although, at the same time, the treatment of complications due to botched abortions in Africa is at a painfully high number: 1.6 million women per year, and at least 9% of maternal deaths in 2014 were all from botched abortions. Only 1/4 of them are done legally. And look, I get one part said "poorer" (since I know you're gonna dig for something), but when they say "fewer resources" in the second article sourced, they're referring to resources to help them terminate the pregnancy. Also, misoprostol is now being sold in Africa at numbers they are unaware of, so there could be a higher number.
Here's all the sources for that:
Nigeria
Africa (whole)
Again.

_101052540_gettyimages-130387728.jpg


LOL. Alright, I'll try to keep someone else's actions in checked so I won't run the risk of getting raped. Also, we've been over the day-after pill already, so let's just go on about the rape part.
Before we do that, let's try to calculate the chances of that ever happening.
So, the woman lives in a bad (pro-rape) area. She takes the birth control pills, since she knows that the chances of getting raped are higher than usual. She avoids going alone, especially during night.
Somehow, she gets jumped and raped.
The average chances of getting pregnant during a sex intercourse is around 20%. During birth control pills, this drops even lower.
But, she still does get pregnant.
Oh shit! Now what?
She takes the day after pill. The pill, if taken in first 24 hours, has 95% chance of success, which means it has 5% chance of failure.
Now, try to calculate the chances of woman getting pregnant after all this steps, and tell me how many 0 are there after the dot? I bet there are at least 5? Something like 0.0000001 % I don't know. I would guess.
And because of this, people should make a law which allows abortions for everyone?
Get the fuck out!

Rape isn't just some dude going "mmm I can see her fucking THIGH I can't RESIST she should've worn a BURQA GAAAH MY TESTOSTERONE IS KICKING IN MUST FUCK SEXY WOMAN." The issue of rape lies in dominance and control, and is more about aggression and power than passion and sexuality. It doesn't matter her age, outfits, demeanor, anything. As long as she's not able to put up much of a fight (and believe me, not every rape victim is drunk or drugged, in fact you're more likely to find one that was either beaten, knocked out, conscious and trying to fight it or even just trying to make it through a doctor's appointment. But sure, let me just lock myself in my house and -- oh right, they'll break into houses, too. Guess I'm just generally fucked for being female, huh?!
The rape argument women make is the equivalent to "no woman wants to date me" argument that incels make.
If you don't want to get raped, don't be stupid.
Find a good man who can protect you and always move near him. Carry a pepper spray always, or some other weapon that you KNOW and CAN use.
Don't move during night, especially alone, and especially not through rape-pro areas.
And no, someone slapping you across your cute ass at the workplace is not rape.
And don't date men who might rape you, including Tyrone. As the saying goes burn the coal, pay the toll.

Typically, an abortion isn't going to take place when the fetus is able to survive on its own. And hmmm, "you should remove the fetus to save the mother." Maybe you should tell that to Alabama, which banned abortion on all counts, including a pregnancy that could kill the mother and the baby with her. And gee, I wish there was some way for a mother to safely and legally terminate a pregnancy that could kill her and subsequently eliminate all chances of the fetus surviving...
I would tell them the exact thing I told you about that.
They made a mistake and made a wrong calculation, if it is as you say it is.

Now tell me, how old are you and how liberal was your university?
 

Genevieve

There I was, guts splatted all over my titties...
Jul 17, 2019
45
42
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The County Morgue
The problem with this is if you allow people this excuse, they will exploit it by saying "Well I did everything right and it just happened... for the sixth time". Please...
You do realize people don't usually get a shitload of abortions, right? They usually get like, one in their lifetime, maybe 2. Hardly past that. It's only a rare few that get more abortions.

Bonus case: Girl, if you think that USA is a shithole YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT A SHITHOLE IS! If you are able to write on DA, meaning you have IT equipment, electricity, internet, and/or if you have working plumbing and enough water and food to get fat.... you're not poor, nor you live in a shithole environment.
I've spoken to people that were living in Bahrain and other countries you'd deem a shithole, and I never personally went to Bahrain or those other countries. Hmm, wonder how they got back to me? Oh right, they had electricity and internet to operate a phone. In India, there's an obesity epidemic right now. Idk if you knew, but India's a literal shithole. So not sure exactly what you want to deem a shithole now. Oh, by the way, both countries have restrictions/bans on abortion, too.

Here's what I want to see. I want to see a place which is not a shithole, where making abortions illegal did not reduce the amount of abortions people have. If you can show me this, then we can move to thinking of another solution.
Here's a first world country that has abortions as illegal: Ireland. This was in the article you called a joke, believe it or not. I can tell you barely skimmed it just going off of that. Ireland only allows abortions to preserve the mother's life, yet in Ireland, this tiny little country, they estimate 800-900 abortions have been carried out, not taking into account out-of-country abortions (people going to neighbor Britain) or pills bought off the internet.

Lol, that's weak. Most people would disagree with this, proved by the amount of people in prisons.
Are you a mother?
I am a mother, yes. I mentioned this in the end of one of my replies. And you do realize prisons have a suicide watch for a reason, right? Or why people perform murder-suicides? It's not just to make for more jobs.

Before we do that, let's try to calculate the chances of that ever happening.
So, the woman lives in a bad (pro-rape) area. She takes the birth control pills, since she knows that the chances of getting raped are higher than usual. She avoids going alone, especially during night.
Somehow, she gets jumped and raped.
The average chances of getting pregnant during a sex intercourse is around 20%. During birth control pills, this drops even lower.
But, she still does get pregnant.
Oh shit! Now what?
She takes the day after pill. The pill, if taken in first 24 hours, has 95% chance of success, which means it has 5% chance of failure.
Now, try to calculate the chances of woman getting pregnant after all this steps, and tell me how many 0 are there after the dot? I bet there are at least 5? Something like 0.0000001 % I don't know. I would guess.
And because of this, people should make a law which allows abortions for everyone?
Get the fuck out!
You do realize all the events are completely independent of each other, right?
She takes a pill, so her chances are lessened depending on how perfect her timing is on taking them.
So now add a condom. Lesser chances, but condoms do break, even when used properly, or say he stealths or it's a rape.
Now the egg's been fertilized. The condom and the pill don't matter into the number anymore because they already failed. Now it's all on the pill.
Just because you don't understand chances of things happening doesn't make things like this invalid.
And women should be allowed abortions because women are kinda more sentient and should have rights to our reproductive system in general, but also because some could literally die from pregnancy. Similarly, women should not be put on trial if they miscarry trying to have a baby, which is exactly what Alabama is doing.
You're telling me that I shouldn't be allowed rights to my own body and should be treated like a suspect in a homicide if I miscarry?
Get the fuck out!

The rape argument women make is the equivalent to "no woman wants to date me" argument that incels make.
If you don't want to get raped, don't be stupid.
Find a good man who can protect you and always move near him. Carry a pepper spray always, or some other weapon that you KNOW and CAN use.
Don't move during night, especially alone, and especially not through rape-pro areas.
And no, someone slapping you across your cute ass at the workplace is not rape.
And don't date men who might rape you, including Tyrone. As the saying goes burn the coal, pay the toll.
Oh this is a whole adventure.

1. So suddenly, I need to keep my fiance around everywhere I go? Might be a total inconvenience for his work, but sure.
2. Many places do not permit weapons, and being quick enough to draw them out is a whole different story.
3. So if someone has night classes at a university that doesn't permit pepper spray, let alone weapons, they might as well just get raped and pretend they like it? Once again, gtfo.
4. I never said ass-slapping was rape, but it definitely is sexual harassment if we're really gonna talk about that.
5. So first you tell me find a good man to protect me, but now not to date men who might rape me, which is any man that exists? Any man has the capability to rape, so now you're contradicting yourself.

Now tell me, how old are you and how liberal was your university?
First, tell me how my age matters in all of this, and why the liberality of my university would matter. There's no correlation to any of this. You can have a major left wing college and be right wing, and similarly, you can have a 40 year old pro-choicer and a 17 year-old anti-abortionist. So tell me how any of that matters?
 

Lorencio

Is this real life?
Sep 22, 2018
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First, tell me how my age matters in all of this, and why the liberality of my university would matter. There's no correlation to any of this. You can have a major left wing college and be right wing, and similarly, you can have a 40 year old pro-choicer and a 17 year-old anti-abortionist. So tell me how any of that matters?
Ha, just answer the question first, and then I'll tell you.
 

mr potato head

Drawing Blood
Jul 17, 2018
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If all women decided on abortion and or abstinence then the human race dies.

To say it is your body and your choice undermines humanity.

I have said it before that abortion is murder but the penalty should reflect the situation.

To many stupid people breed by choice and by mistake, that is the problem and abortions shouldn't be the solution
.
 

Lorencio

Is this real life?
Sep 22, 2018
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You do realize people don't usually get a shitload of abortions, right? They usually get like, one in their lifetime, maybe 2. Hardly past that. It's only a rare few that get more abortions.
I said that they will seek to exploit the system by having over 5 abortions in some cases. A single abortion is already too much, let alone 2, or 5.

I've spoken to people that were living in Bahrain and other countries you'd deem a shithole, and I never personally went to Bahrain or those other countries. Hmm, wonder how they got back to me? Oh right, they had electricity and internet to operate a phone.
Bahrain is one of the richest countries in the world, far more richer than where I live.
This is Bahrain:

bahrain1_resources1_16a4a15f8e1_large.jpg


India is barely above Nigeria in their GDP.

In India, there's an obesity epidemic right now. Idk if you knew, but India's a literal shithole. So not sure exactly what you want to deem a shithole now.
This is India: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/03/world/asia/india-toilet-movie.html

This is India.PNG


Oh, by the way, both countries have restrictions/bans on abortion, too.
Don't forget that Bahrain is a Muslim country.

Here's a first world country that has abortions as illegal: Ireland. This was in the article you called a joke, believe it or not. I can tell you barely skimmed it just going off of that. Ireland only allows abortions to preserve the mother's life, yet in Ireland, this tiny little country, they estimate 800-900 abortions have been carried out, not taking into account out-of-country abortions (people going to neighbor Britain) or pills bought off the internet.
That doesn't mean anything. The number could be 100 million.
The article does not state how many abortions were BEFORE the law was passed. It only states how "terrible" it is that women are having around 800 to 900 abortions a month. Show me a comparison. It's a simple Before-After case.
Also, the usefulness of laws should be questioned, if people can just jump to a near country to have an abortion or just order abortion pills.

I am a mother, yes. I mentioned this in the end of one of my replies. And you do realize prisons have a suicide watch for a reason, right? Or why people perform murder-suicides? It's not just to make for more jobs.
Let's say that you have a 5 year old child. You would rather commit suicide and leave that child motherless, or go in jail for 10 years?

You do realize all the events are completely independent of each other, right?
She takes a pill, so her chances are lessened depending on how perfect her timing is on taking them.
So now add a condom. Lesser chances, but condoms do break, even when used properly, or say he stealths or it's a rape.
Now the egg's been fertilized. The condom and the pill don't matter into the number anymore because they already failed. Now it's all on the pill.
Just because you don't understand chances of things happening doesn't make things like this invalid.
You're the one who doesn't understand how chances work.
Those steps are all connected. Each step decreases the chances to pregnancy happening. By time the day-after pill fails, she already had to fail on 4-5 additional steps. All combined would make it around one in billion chances of her getting pregnant by rape.

Similarly, women should not be put on trial if they miscarry trying to have a baby, which is exactly what Alabama is doing.
You bitch.
"State prosecutors, for example, might be able to charge women whose pregnancies end in miscarriage with second-degree murder, which carries a sentence of 10 to 30 years, if they can prove the miscarriage was a result of the woman's own conduct, like drug or alcohol use, as Slate argued."
from here: https://www.businessinsider.com/women-30-years-prison-miscarriage-georgia-abortion-2019-5

You're telling me that I shouldn't be allowed rights to my own body and should be treated like a suspect in a homicide if I miscarry?
Get the fuck out!
That's exactly fucking right. Because it's not your own body, it's a body of a child. If the child is your body, you should be allowed to kill your child even when they are 5, or 50 years old.

Oh this is a whole adventure.

1. So suddenly, I need to keep my fiance around everywhere I go? Might be a total inconvenience for his work, but sure.
2. Many places do not permit weapons, and being quick enough to draw them out is a whole different story.
3. So if someone has night classes at a university that doesn't permit pepper spray, let alone weapons, they might as well just get raped and pretend they like it? Once again, gtfo.
4. I never said ass-slapping was rape, but it definitely is sexual harassment if we're really gonna talk about that.
5. So first you tell me find a good man to protect me, but now not to date men who might rape me, which is any man that exists? Any man has the capability to rape, so now you're contradicting yourself.
1: Yes.
2: Vote against gun-control and learn to use a firearm. Use that 2nd amendment. Also, I'm sure pepper sprays are legal in most countries. If not, then you should move. If you can't do that, you're fucked. Focus more on the other aspects.
3: University is a safe place. It's walk to university that's a problem. It can fall under the "rape areas", to which things I already mentioned apply.
4: Well, it's only sexual harassment if she does not want you to slap her ass. But, sure, sexual harassment is not the same as rape.
5: Sure, every man has a capability to rape you just like any woman can. But, a good man (by your definition of a good man) would not rape you. Unless your definition of a good man includes you getting raped. But, who am I to judge.
 

Genevieve

There I was, guts splatted all over my titties...
Jul 17, 2019
45
42
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The County Morgue
Ha, just answer the question first, and then I'll tell you.
Tell me how it matters. I've already explained to you how it doesn't.

I said that they will seek to exploit the system by having over 5 abortions in some cases. A single abortion is already too much, let alone 2, or 5.
Once again, exploitation of the right is rare. And please, tell every woman who would've died of an ectopic pregnancy that their abortion to save their own lives was too much and they should've just died. Go on, do it.

Bahrain is one of the richest countries in the world, far more richer than where I live.
This is Bahrain:

bahrain1_resources1_16a4a15f8e1_large.jpg
Oh, that's the decent part of Bahrain. Bahrain isn't all like that. This is the city of Bahrain the person I've communicated with was from.
1565990145788.png


As for your photo of India there, I did mention it's a literal shithole. However, you can make India look just as good as that area in Bahrain, too.
1565990199942.png


Damn, if India looked that good everywhere, I wouldn't see a single problem with India.

Show me a comparison. It's a simple Before-After case.
Abortion in Ireland has been illegal since the 19th century. As much as I would love to give you a before-after on your dream country here, it's kind of had a steady law.

Let's say that you have a 5 year old child. You would rather commit suicide and leave that child motherless, or go in jail for 10 years?
Chances are, if I was in prison, the father would keep no contact with me and the child would consider himself without a mother if he doesn't have a stepmother by then, so dying isn't pretty bad. And I mean, I wouldn't even be able to get a job, find a home, support my own child or live a life anything like before the sentence. So what's the point?

Those steps are all connected. Each step decreases the chances to pregnancy happening. By time the day-after pill fails, she already had to fail on 4-5 additional steps. All combined would make it around one in billion chances of her getting pregnant by rape.
No, they are not. I already explained why. After the egg's fertilized, the chances in the first part are done for. The day-after pill becomes the ending chance. But it seems you prefer not to listen to things you don't like.

You bitch.
"State prosecutors, for example, might be able to charge women whose pregnancies end in miscarriage with second-degree murder, which carries a sentence of 10 to 30 years, if they can prove the miscarriage was a result of the woman's own conduct, like drug or alcohol use, as Slate argued."
from here: https://www.businessinsider.com/women-30-years-prison-miscarriage-georgia-abortion-2019-5
However, look back at posts before. It's hard for them to know they were the result of their miscarriages. Like how people would get arrested in El Salvador for miscarriages they played no part in causing, that's what's going to happen in America and almost already happened once since the abortion ban in Alabama.

Because it's not your own body, it's a body of a child.
Except said "child" is not a child yet, it's merely a fetus, a group of cells. It has the potential to become a child if it isn't miscarried or the pregnancy isn't terminated. However, until then, it's merely a group of cells feeding off a host (the mother). It is a part of the mother's body until it is able to survive on its own outside of the womb; it's a part of her uterus. If she dies, so does the fetus, and it then loses all chance of becoming a child. They aren't even able to practice "breathing" (it's more so just the movements) until the 32nd week of pregnancy (third trimester), and by then, they'd still probably be relying on a NICU until their lungs are more developed.

University is a safe place. It's walk to university that's a problem.
I'd love for you to tell that to my friend that got gang-raped twice on campus in the parking lot with the campus police nearby, doing nothing to stop the group of guys that were all involved.

Sure, every man has a capability to rape you just like any woman can. But, a good man (by your definition of a good man) would not rape you.
Someone can seem good up until the point where they even try to. You can't always be able to look at someone and just go "oh, shit, they'd rape me" or "oh they're definitely abusive." If you could, shit, I could've saved myself SO much trouble with past relationships. But in the real world, it's just not possible. Be realistic here.
 

Lorencio

Is this real life?
Sep 22, 2018
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Tell me how it matters. I've already explained to you how it doesn't.
I didn't ask you to explain it. I asked you to answer the question.

Once again, exploitation of the right is rare. And please, tell every woman who would've died of an ectopic pregnancy that their abortion to save their own lives was too much and they should've just died. Go on, do it.
I wouldn't say that. You would know that if you paid attention to what I'm saying. If it's clear that a woman would die unless the fetus is removed, then the fetus should be removed.

Oh, that's the decent part of Bahrain. Bahrain isn't all like that. This is the city of Bahrain the person I've communicated with was from.
I can fine worse pictures of places in USA than that.
On wikipedia, the GDP per capita in USA is $62,606.
GDP per capita of Bahrain is $50,750.
Of India: $8,484
Of Nigeria: $6,130

Damn, if India looked that good everywhere, I wouldn't see a single problem with India.
But, it doesn't.

Abortion in Ireland has been illegal since the 19th century. As much as I would love to give you a before-after on your dream country here, it's kind of had a steady law.
Then wtf did you just showed me? It said that abortion is around 800-900 after they changed the law. You want to say that those numbers are after the legalized abortion?
In any case, then go find another country or another study. I want proof.

Chances are, if I was in prison, the father would keep no contact with me and the child would consider himself without a mother if he doesn't have a stepmother by then, so dying isn't pretty bad. And I mean, I wouldn't even be able to get a job, find a home, support my own child or live a life anything like before the sentence. So what's the point?
The point is that you're weak and would give up on your child too easily.

No, they are not. I already explained why. After the egg's fertilized, the chances in the first part are done for. The day-after pill becomes the ending chance. But it seems you prefer not to listen to things you don't like.
Yes they are and not you didn't.
I already explained that by the time a woman takes a day-after pill, she's already in the 0.001%, add to that the 5% chance of a day-after pill failing, and make your own calculation.

However, look back at posts before. It's hard for them to know they were the result of their miscarriages. Like how people would get arrested in El Salvador for miscarriages they played no part in causing, that's what's going to happen in America and almost already happened once since the abortion ban in Alabama.
Then say it like it is. Get it right the first time.
If that is true, then the problem is in doctors, or whoever is making the examinations.

However, until then, it's merely a group of cells feeding off a host (the mother).
Lol, I heard this often. You are also a group of cells. Your consciousness is a collection of cells working together. If we can remove fetus, as a group of cells, then it should be legal for me to remove you, since you're just a group of cells.

It is a part of the mother's body until it is able to survive on its own outside of the womb; it's a part of her uterus. If she dies, so does the fetus, and it then loses all chance of becoming a child. They aren't even able to practice "breathing" (it's more so just the movements) until the 32nd week of pregnancy (third trimester), and by then, they'd still probably be relying on a NICU until their lungs are more developed.
Yes and? The fetus is connected to her, but it's not her body. And if it her body, the fetus, then the woman would also be a cluster of cells, which would make it legal for me to remove her (the mother).

I'd love for you to tell that to my friend that got gang-raped twice on campus in the parking lot with the campus police nearby, doing nothing to stop the group of guys that were all involved.
I can bet my balls that you're missing something of that story.
Gang rapes on campus parking lots in decent 'anti-rape' areas while police is watching is not something that often happens. Unless we're talking about UK, or Sweden.

Someone can seem good up until the point where they even try to. You can't always be able to look at someone and just go "oh, shit, they'd rape me" or "oh they're definitely abusive." If you could, shit, I could've saved myself SO much trouble with past relationships. But in the real world, it's just not possible. Be realistic here.
Let me ask you something. Did you date them longer than 3 months without having sex? How about a year? By that time, one should be able to tell a difference between a rapist and a non-rapist.
 
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