Abortion discussion

Lorencio

Is this real life?
Sep 22, 2018
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When I got the news. It messed me up. Her, even more so. We weren't an item. We were colleagues. I told her I'd support whatever her mind came up with. So that's that basically.. I take full responsibility for this as is it were my choice. But it wasn't my choice.. Nor should it have been. It was hers. I'm glad she had one. Men need to stay behind the line on this one imo.
BETAAAAAAAAAAA MAAAAAAAAAALE!!!!
It was your choice and you should have never let her have an abortion.

I've had an abortion....so tell me something... HOW in the fuck did it affect you?
Similar to saying "I killed 10 people in my city, how does that affect you in your own city?"
Which is fine, I'll answer it.
The child can be an asset for the whole community. That's why it's illegal for parents to kill their already born child. Why? Because someone else might want to take and care about that child. Also because you are not the child. They are a different person from their parents.
The survival of an individual depends on the survival of the whole community. If the community starts falling apart, so will the individuals of that community.

Where were you when I was going through it? How has my decision changed your life? Do you care about a child's life beyond it entering into this world? Then why aren't you there for my kids now?
Your child is primarily your own responsibility. Just like my child is, will be, primarily my own responsibility.
I didn't milk your sperm and inject it into your girlfriend. That's not how it works.
 

Genevieve

There I was, guts splatted all over my titties...
Jul 17, 2019
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The County Morgue
But, making it illegal reduces the amount of abortions, or gun ownership. It doesn't remove it completely, but it does reduce it.
I didn't say it removed those completely.

When speaking of guns, making ownership illegal will just keep people who are using them for home protection from having one. People who are going to use a gun for a mass shooting will obtain a gun by whatever means. If they cared about their actions being legal, they wouldn't go on a shooting spree in the first place. They can go to somewhere where it is legal (because let's face it, laws are different everywhere you go) and obtain it, or they can buy it off the black market, steal one, or even make one themselves. They can buy the parts, smith them or even 3D print them, it's not that hard. And with literal guides you can find on a quick Google search, nothing's impossible. I could do a quick search on Google on how to make a bomb and it'll be readily available right there, step by step and made easy.

Back to abortion, all making it illegal will do is take the safety of obtaining one away. Back before abortions were ever legal, there were plenty backdoor practices being done. Take her to a secluded meet-up where she'd get transferred to someone's house (not knowing whose and not knowing the faces, obviously) and have it done on someone's dining table. Or you'd have someone just take a wire hanger to themselves, or even purposely try to miscarry (which there's plenty of Google articles on, too). If the States were to all make abortion illegal, all that's going to do is make contributions to the other 30,000 annual deaths by botched abortions. Even if there was time for them to make it to a hospital, they'd rather die than face the jail sentence they knew they'd have to face. And to put into perspective just how making abortions illegal won't solve the issue, it's illegal in El Salvador to have an abortion, but 1 in 3 pregnancies still end in abortion there simply by taking misoprostol found on the street. However, with them trying to crack down on misoprostol and having difficulties distinguishing true miscarriage from self-induced miscarriage, they're arresting women who did not try to miscarry. As if losing their baby didn't break them down enough, now they're facing jail time for something they didn't want to happen. On top of that, of the people there who have not even tried to have either died from lack of treatment in fear of harming or killing the fetus, died of ectopic pregnancies (in fear that the fetus would still survive despite the Fallopian tube bursting), or even killed themselves because they were so distraught over their pregnancies. Oh, and by the way, the mothers who killed themselves over their pregnancies makes up about 3/8 of all maternal deaths in El Salvador. Not just related to abortion, but ALL maternal deaths. I encourage you to look over this article, as it mentions even more places and even more methods.

By banning abortions, not only are you putting an unborn fetus into a higher importance level than the mother, you're genuinely taking lives. And I don't mean just potential humans, but the living people who are carrying that fetus or multiple fetuses. You're not just taking the unborn, but the living hosts with them.
 

Lorencio

Is this real life?
Sep 22, 2018
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And either way, making abortion illegal isn't going to stop it.
This is what you said.
I said that it wont stop it completely, but it will reduce the amount of abortions people have.
If murder was legal, you would see people killing each other much more.
 

Lorencio

Is this real life?
Sep 22, 2018
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Back to abortion, all making it illegal will do is take the safety of obtaining one away. Back before abortions were ever legal, there were plenty backdoor practices being done.
I disagree. Plenty, can mean many things. I'm sure the abortions PER CAPITA are less frequent when they are illegal, then whey they are legal.

If the States were to all make abortion illegal, all that's going to do is make contributions to the other 30,000 annual deaths by botched abortions.
Still less than what people are already having. Also, those women would go to jail thus will be unable to have any more abortions. A lot of abortions are done by the same women, I think 80/20 applies here.

Even if there was time for them to make it to a hospital, they'd rather die than face the jail sentence they knew they'd have to face.
You're pulling that out of your ass.

And to put into perspective just how making abortions illegal won't solve the issue, it's illegal in El Salvador to have an abortion, but 1 in 3 pregnancies still end in abortion there simply by taking misoprostol found on the street. However, with them trying to crack down on misoprostol and having difficulties distinguishing true miscarriage from self-induced miscarriage, they're arresting women who did not try to miscarry. As if losing their baby didn't break them down enough, now they're facing jail time for something they didn't want to happen.
Shithole countries are not the best example.

I encourage you to look over this article, as it mentions even more places and even more methods.
That article is a joke.
1 paragraph in and there are already more than few contra-arguments.
"When abortion is illegal, women rarely die, but they still suffer"
"..became one of the 40-some Argentine women who die each year from unsafe abortions." (that's a low number)
"Illegality forces the poorest women to use the most desperate practices" (don't be fucking poor, and if you're poor living in a shithole country, don't spread your legs.)

By banning abortions, not only are you putting an unborn fetus into a higher importance level than the mother, you're genuinely taking lives.
The life of a fetus is more important than a life of an ignorant and irresponsible woman. The smart and responsible women will not have problems with this. The rape cases where woman gets pregnant are only few percentages, and in those cases a woman should deliver a baby for adoption.

You're not just taking the unborn, but the living hosts with them.
Nothing of value would be taken. Only saved.
 
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Genevieve

There I was, guts splatted all over my titties...
Jul 17, 2019
45
42
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The County Morgue
The life of a fetus is more important than a life of an ignorant and irresponsible woman. The smart and responsible women will not have problems with this. The rape cases where woman gets pregnant are only few percentages, and in those cases a woman should deliver a baby for adoption.
So you're telling me that a smart and responsible woman can't have an ectopic pregnancy or other complication? You're telling me that a smart and responsible woman who uses preventative forms and still gets pregnant can't happen? And even if, say, she survives pregnancy, childbirth (because fun fact: women can die postpartum from the bleeding, too), and decides to put up for adoption, do you think that's suddenly going to make other postpartum issue go away? Like she's just not gonna start producing milk or develop postpartum depression that could lead to her killing herself (especially at the thought that the baby she spent 9 months carrying is at the hands of someone who she has not a clue of who they are)? Come on now.

Plenty, can mean many things. I'm sure the abortions PER CAPITA are less frequent when they are illegal, then whey they are legal.
Surprise: After a spike shortly after the legalization of abortions in the United States, there was a spike back down in the late 80's and a very steady dropoff since then. Based on the trend, if people were to have left it be, we'd be expecting numbers to drop even further below the pre-legalization numbers. But, keep in mind pre-legalization, you had far less people willingly admit to having an abortion, especially to the CDC.
CDC
NCBI

Oh, by the way, did you know after the legalization of abortion, illegal procedures dropped drastically from 130,000 to 17,000 per year and the number of deaths by illegal backdoor procedures dropped from 39 to 5 in that same period? And I don't care how "little" of a number that is to you on either one. If you actually care about lives, that should matter. But you've so far made it seem like you just care that babies are born and don't care about what happens to them in life, including dying by an illegal at-home abortion.

You're pulling that out of your ass.
Lmao dude, if I was, then those people probably would've sought out medical attention before dying of a punctured uterus. Literally a majority of your arguments have been out of your ass, so I don't know what's bringing you to the conclusion you've made there.

Shithole countries are not the best example.
Shithole countries are also the places where abortion is illegal currently and has been illegal. So too bad. But don't worry, you'll be seeing more of what the examples I mentioned in the United States where abortion is now illegal *ahem Alabama ahem*.

(don't be fucking poor, and if you're poor living in a shithole country, don't spread your legs.)
Wow, look, you seem to have solved the world's problems. Just stop being poor, guys. And if you're living somewhere you kinda had no choice but to live in because that's where you were born and you have no means of getting out, you better wear a fucking chastity belt 24/7 and don't do anything to take your mind off the fact you're living in a shithole so might as well kys while you're at it. Seriously dude, get realistic.

Nothing of value would be taken. Only saved.
Newsflash: if the mother dies, so does the fetus. It can't live independently of the mother until pretty late in the pregnancy, and depending on that time, it'd probably be in a NICU for months on end with nowhere to go, really. So the fetus dies with the mother, what you tried to save is dead and someone's life is dead. Good job, you have no clue how pregnancy works. You wanna tell me to my face that I don't? I'll bring my son along.
 

Lorencio

Is this real life?
Sep 22, 2018
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You're not just taking the unborn, but the living hosts with them.
So you're telling me that a smart and responsible woman can't have an ectopic pregnancy or other complication? You're telling me that a smart and responsible woman who uses preventative forms and still gets pregnant can't happen? And even if, say, she survives pregnancy, childbirth (because fun fact: women can die postpartum from the bleeding, too), and decides to put up for adoption, do you think that's suddenly going to make other postpartum issue go away? Like she's just not gonna start producing milk or develop postpartum depression that could lead to her killing herself (especially at the thought that the baby she spent 9 months carrying is at the hands of someone who she has not a clue of who they are)? Come on now.
A smart and responsible woman would have a child when she and her husband want to have a child.
If she and her doctors can clearly foresee some major life threatening pregnancy complications, then she should be allowed to have an abortion.
She can't be smart and responsible if she has unplanned pregnancy, by definition.

Surprise: After a spike shortly after the legalization of abortions in the United States, there was a spike back down in the late 80's and a very steady dropoff since then. Based on the trend, if people were to have left it be, we'd be expecting numbers to drop even further below the pre-legalization numbers. But, keep in mind pre-legalization, you had far less people willingly admit to having an abortion, especially to the CDC.
CDC
NCBI
Provide source.

Oh, by the way, did you know after the legalization of abortion, illegal procedures dropped drastically from 130,000 to 17,000 per year and the number of deaths by illegal backdoor procedures dropped from 39 to 5 in that same period? And I don't care how "little" of a number that is to you on either one. If you actually care about lives, that should matter. But you've so far made it seem like you just care that babies are born and don't care about what happens to them in life, including dying by an illegal at-home abortion.
Actually, that number is a pretty big fucking deal. Saving the life of 30 people with a nation of 300+ million people is very important, considering how much money the government is spending on building abortion facilities and paying the staff to kill babies.
All that money could be used to save many lives in different aspects.
The reason why illegal abortions dropped is because they became legal. Which resulted in less mother dying, but in many more babies (fetuses) dying and getting harvested.
That article states that "and that denying women access to legal abortion does not prevent them from having abortions" and I disagree with this. I want to see evidence of this. The evidence that states that in developed countries the amount of abortions is almost identical regardless if it's legal or not.
But, even if you do find it, it still would justify making abortions legal, since it's a problem of personal responsibility.
Btw, 95% of the staff of that organization is female. And I bet almost everyone there is pro-abortion.

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Lmao dude, if I was, then those people probably would've sought out medical attention before dying of a punctured uterus. Literally a majority of your arguments have been out of your ass, so I don't know what's bringing you to the conclusion you've made there.
You said that majority of them would rather die than face jail. Which is pure BS argument.
Would you rather die then go to jail for x number of years?

Shithole countries are also the places where abortion is illegal currently and has been illegal. So too bad. But don't worry, you'll be seeing more of what the examples I mentioned in the United States where abortion is now illegal *ahem Alabama ahem*.
Shithole countries almost always have extremely high birth rates. Which I would guess, increases the likelihood of women having abortions.

Wow, look, you seem to have solved the world's problems. Just stop being poor, guys. And if you're living somewhere you kinda had no choice but to live in because that's where you were born and you have no means of getting out, you better wear a fucking chastity belt 24/7 and don't do anything to take your mind off the fact you're living in a shithole so might as well kys while you're at it. Seriously dude, get realistic.
No, just be smart and responsible. If you live in a shithole country you're already fucked.
If you live in a first world, or even a second world, country and you're poor... you should use that opportunity to get out of poverty.
Like, It's that fucking simple. Just pick carefully the men you fuck with. That's all. Be responsible to not get raped. And if you do get raped and pregnant, which is quite impossible since you can take the "day-after pill", but still if that happens then you should be allowed to have an abortion.
All else is pure BS and satanism.

Newsflash: if the mother dies, so does the fetus. It can't live independently of the mother until pretty late in the pregnancy, and depending on that time, it'd probably be in a NICU for months on end with nowhere to go, really. So the fetus dies with the mother, what you tried to save is dead and someone's life is dead. Good job, you have no clue how pregnancy works. You wanna tell me to my face that I don't? I'll bring my son along.
If a woman dies during child birth and if a child survives, then that child is alive.
If you already know that both fetus and mother are going to die, unless the fetus is removed, then the fetus should be removed to save the mother.
 

Genevieve

There I was, guts splatted all over my titties...
Jul 17, 2019
45
42
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The County Morgue
A smart and responsible woman would have a child when she and her husband want to have a child.
Okay let's really get in on this quote.
You're saying a smart and responsible woman plans her baby. Okay, let's look at two situations.
One woman has a baby when her and her husband planned to. They go through it all, they have the baby, they keep the baby. She starts drinking heavily and abuses her child. According to you, she's smart and responsible because she had her baby when she and her husband chose it was time to do so.
Another woman, on the other hand, has a baby unplanned. She also keeps the baby, and she isn't abusive or a drinker. According to you, she's an irresponsible dunce just because it was unplanned.
A third woman gets pregnant after her first time but took proper methods of preventative control, including a day-after pill that failed (because as you would not know this, the pill CAN STILL fail and the effectiveness varies based on body type and time after). She is living in the United States (which is a shithole but you choose to acknowledge it as above that) and is not ready to have a baby (let's say she's still in school). Let me guess, she's irresponsible and stupid simply because she had sex once?
I think you have some re-evaluation on what responsible and smart is.

Provide source.
If you could read, I provided two. In fact, you quoted them both in.

That article states that "and that denying women access to legal abortion does not prevent them from having abortions" and I disagree with this. I want to see evidence of this.
I provided that... It's literally happening in places where abortion is illegal. You just chose to plug your ears and scream simply because they weren't in the United States, where most states still have legal abortion.

You said that majority of them would rather die than face jail. Which is pure BS argument.
Would you rather die then go to jail for x number of years?
Considering how women get treated in prisons, and the guilt women DO face after having an abortion (because shocker, women can and do still feel guilty about having one), yes, I would actually rather die than face x years in prison.

Shithole countries almost always have extremely high birth rates. Which I would guess, increases the likelihood of women having abortions.
Soooo America? Because surprisingly, we have a higher birthrate than China, which I have no doubt you'd consider a shithole. Just saying: population density does not necessarily correlate to the birthrate, nor does it correlate with abortion rate. In fact, Nigeria's abortion rate is lower than ours. Although, at the same time, the treatment of complications due to botched abortions in Africa is at a painfully high number: 1.6 million women per year, and at least 9% of maternal deaths in 2014 were all from botched abortions. Only 1/4 of them are done legally. And look, I get one part said "poorer" (since I know you're gonna dig for something), but when they say "fewer resources" in the second article sourced, they're referring to resources to help them terminate the pregnancy. Also, misoprostol is now being sold in Africa at numbers they are unaware of, so there could be a higher number.
Here's all the sources for that:
Nigeria
Africa (whole)

Be responsible to not get raped. And if you do get raped and pregnant, which is quite impossible since you can take the "day-after pill", but still if that happens then you should be allowed to have an abortion.
All else is pure BS and satanism.
LOL. Alright, I'll try to keep someone else's actions in checked so I won't run the risk of getting raped. Also, we've been over the day-after pill already, so let's just go on about the rape part.
Rape isn't just some dude going "mmm I can see her fucking THIGH I can't RESIST she should've worn a BURQA GAAAH MY TESTOSTERONE IS KICKING IN MUST FUCK SEXY WOMAN." The issue of rape lies in dominance and control, and is more about aggression and power than passion and sexuality. It doesn't matter her age, outfits, demeanor, anything. As long as she's not able to put up much of a fight (and believe me, not every rape victim is drunk or drugged, in fact you're more likely to find one that was either beaten, knocked out, conscious and trying to fight it or even just trying to make it through a doctor's appointment. But sure, let me just lock myself in my house and -- oh right, they'll break into houses, too. Guess I'm just generally fucked for being female, huh?!

If you already know that both fetus and mother are going to die, unless the fetus is removed, then the fetus should be removed to save the mother.
Typically, an abortion isn't going to take place when the fetus is able to survive on its own. And hmmm, "you should remove the fetus to save the mother." Maybe you should tell that to Alabama, which banned abortion on all counts, including a pregnancy that could kill the mother and the baby with her. And gee, I wish there was some way for a mother to safely and legally terminate a pregnancy that could kill her and subsequently eliminate all chances of the fetus surviving...
 
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