Abortion discussion

DPDfuzzy

Deathling
May 30, 2019
24
44
13
Detroit
BETAAAAAAAAAAA MAAAAAAAAAALE!!!!
It was your choice and you should have never let her have an abortion.


Similar to saying "I killed 10 people in my city, how does that affect you in your own city?"
Which is fine, I'll answer it.
The child can be an asset for the whole community. That's why it's illegal for parents to kill their already born child. Why? Because someone else might want to take and care about that child. Also because you are not the child. They are a different person from their parents.
The survival of an individual depends on the survival of the whole community. If the community starts falling apart, so will the individuals of that community.


Your child is primarily your own responsibility. Just like my child is, will be, primarily my own responsibility.
I didn't milk your sperm and inject it into your girlfriend. That's not how it works.
I'm sorry what? Did you really type 'beta male' in caps? Is that your intention with it... You definitely lost me with that one.
You're not to be taken seriously with little bullshit like that... But if you'd like, go re-read the OP.. Y then mine. You just may see that '
child being my responsibility' wasn't THE argument.. Nor was it my argument. Lastly if you believe the father has rights to veto a woman's abortion you're a fucking idiot. But you were already one of those when you started commenting.
 

Genevieve

There I was, guts splatted all over my titties...
Jul 17, 2019
45
47
18
The County Morgue
I didn't ask you to explain it. I asked you to answer the question.
I don't care, the question is completely invalid.

I wouldn't say that.
Yet you would say that "one abortion is too many." One abortion could be for any reason, even placental abruption (and considering I'm sure you never looked into issues during pregnancy, placental abruption is when the placenta separates from the uterine wall and doesn't supply enough oxygen, and if it's severe enough, the baby has to be taken out. Yes, there are conditions that affect the baby but not the mother, shocker).

But, it doesn't.
Neither does Bahrain. Oh, and by the way, if India's GDP makes you think they don't have things like internet and electronics, then I'd like to refer you to all the creepy Indians that send me weird DM's on Instagram.

Oh, and Ireland's GDP is 69.3K as of 2017, so GDP=/=abortion stance

It said that abortion is around 800-900 after they changed the law. You want to say that those numbers are after the legalized abortion?
If you need more numbers, I just found this whole chart.
The article I sent was just before it was legalized (it was just legalized in the end of May, the article was early May).
However, even with the legalization, there are still parts of the legislation that do not make it fully accessible, nor does it cover all of Ireland.

The point is that you're weak and would give up on your child too easily.
The point is I wouldn't even be given a chance to raise my child after prison. You like to act like someone can walk out of prison to resume their daily normal lives. Usually, after you're incarcerated, you:
  • Are unable to obtain a job due to your criminal record
  • Have no money, and your house has most likely been foreclosed if you're living alone (with no one to pay off the cost of living)
  • Have lost custody of your child and even if they saw you, likely have lost all respect from your child
  • Have a hard time re-navigating the outside world
  • Don't have the resources to seek treatment (if the charge was drug related)
  • Can't even go back to school (they, too, do background checks and will not admit you)
It's not weakness, it's literal inability. The point is you have no idea what you're even talking about.

I already explained that by the time a woman takes a day-after pill, she's already in the 0.001%, add to that the 5% chance of a day-after pill failing, and make your own calculation.
Looks like we need to dumb it down further.
Prevention is its own chance. Say the birth control fails, or even better: you're on the placebos (in case you weren't aware, there's placebos in there, too, and will not prevent a pregnancy). The man wears a condom. It fails or breaks. The chance of prevention has already been done. You've tried to prevent it, it's already played out. The egg is fertilized. Now your only chances are with the day-after pill.

Let's now give it a visual you might start to understand.
You have two bags filled with multicolored balls. In each, you have 2 red, 2 green, 2 blue, 2 yellow and 2 white. Let's say the 2 white is the chance the egg is fertilized (all prevention methods fail), while the colored balls are the chances it works. You mix the bag up and grab out a white ball. Now, you grab from the second bag, which is the chance the day-after-pill works. White is once again the chance it fails, the rest are success. You mix it up again. You grab another white ball. Fetus is still growing. Now you're stuck either aborting or carrying all 9 months to give the baby away because you are unable to raise the child.

Now allow me to explain birth control methods and day-after pills, as well as accessibility.

Birth control is simply to prevent the egg from ever getting fertilized in the first place. These methods, from most to least accessible, are:
Condoms
Female condoms
Birth control pills
IUD's

How the birth control pills work is they add more estrogen and progestin into the bloodstream, preventing ovulation and building a thick mucus inside the cervix. If not taken right at the same time every day, the egg is able to move and the wall doesn't rebuild (it's usually cleaned out, because the vagina is self-cleaning). However, the pill can also be less effective or ineffective if you have norovirus (or are just generally vomiting and/or having diarrhea for a couple days), taking certain medications (such as antibiotics, antifungals, anti-seizure meds or St. John's Wort), or simply from being overweight. While they say the effectiveness of the pill is 99%, that's only if you are perfect at taking it, aren't overweight, aren't taking other medication, are taking estrogen with the pills, and at a normal weight. Generally, the effectiveness on estrogen-containing pills is closer to 90%, even lower if you do not take an estrogen-containing pill (progestin only pill) aka the "mini pill." People who are prone to migraines are at higher risk of a stroke if they take estrogen-containing pills.

The day-after pill is not a method as to prevent the egg from fertilizing, but a way to stop it from further growing. The job of the day-after pill is to expel the already-fertilized egg (or embryo) as to stop it from becoming a fetus. The day-after pill is also not as accessible, especially to people with less money. These go for about $40 a dose (that whole big box only has one pill), may or may not require a prescription (depending on where you are), and usually contain the same factors that reduce their effectiveness as birth control pills (these just have a higher amount of the hormones, including estrogen, which once again, is not good for people with migraines). However, now time is even more important, as these get less and less effective by the minute. Your chances MIGHT be higher if you have them right there and are able to take them as soon as you find out there's a chance your egg could've been fertilized, but normally, that's not everyone's situation.

If that is true, then the problem is in doctors, or whoever is making the examinations.
You could hire the best doctor or examiner and they could still have serious trouble telling who has and has not induced their own miscarriages. Not every tumble down the stairs shows, natural ways usually aren't detected at all, and depending on when they even show up to a hospital (or even if), the drug may no longer be in the bloodstream.

Lol, I heard this often. You are also a group of cells. Your consciousness is a collection of cells working together. If we can remove fetus, as a group of cells, then it should be legal for me to remove you, since you're just a group of cells.
Let's dumb down even further.
Fetuses are a group of stem cells, or cells with no assigned role, regardless if it takes the shape of anything yet. As the fetus develops, the cells are assigned roles. The placenta is designed to give the cells fuel and oxygen from the mother to survive and develop. All the cells are doing in that timeframe where they allow for abortion is multiplying. And if we really need to get into this argument, if you say we shouldn't be allowed to remove a fetus simply because even fully grown humans are made up of cells, better hope you never get cancer. If I'm your doctor, I legally can't take your tumor out, or my veterinarian relative can't take the tumor out of your pet(s), because we can't remove anything that's made up of cells of any kind. So it's terminal, have fun with your last days on Earth, buddy.

The fetus is connected to her, but it's not her body. And if it her body, the fetus, then the woman would also be a cluster of cells, which would make it legal for me to remove her (the mother).
Once again, that malignant tumor is connected to a cancer patient, but isn't their body. Looks like they're dying.

And yes, that's exactly how backwards your logic sounds.

Gang rapes on campus parking lots in decent 'anti-rape' areas while police is watching is not something that often happens. Unless we're talking about UK, or Sweden.
I'm not sure if you know this, but literally no sane location endorses rape. Also, so what are you saying, we should just blow her situation off because campuses are such safe places?

Let me ask you something. Did you date them longer than 3 months without having sex? How about a year? By that time, one should be able to tell a difference between a rapist and a non-rapist.
Oh, this is fun. Not sure if you need my abusive ex's story or the ex-friend that tried to rape me in my other friend's own home, so here you go:
ABUSIVE EX:
Dated a year and a half, no sex at all. He tried to push me to, but I didn't want to. Didn't think he was abusive when we met (seemed like a nice guy, good family), only stayed as long as I did because he threatened to kill himself if I left, he kept me from having friends, and physically harmed me despite constant reminders that he'd protect me.

EX-FRIEND
Never dated, was a friend of a friend I trusted for a long time (trust was lost later on), seemed cool for the first few days I knew him, tried to rape me while I was recovering out of the hospital from nearly dying from a condition I have. Pinned me down, I was lucky enough to have been able to move my leg enough to kick him in the crotch to escape. Was still abstinent at the time, was even way before I met the abusive ex mentioned above. Friends that knew this guy for even longer than I did doubted my story and tried to defend him.

My son is with my fiance who I've been with for years.

Any more questions on my personal life to try to make storytime examples to pick at straws for an argument or would you like to have a factual debate?

You seem like the kind of guy who dishes out dark humor and expects everyone to get it, but once other people dish out dark humor back, you take it seriously and personally. Those commentators are literally joking, especially because they know it's more anti-abortion propaganda type shit. Chill.
 

Lorencio

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I don't care, the question is completely invalid.
It was a simple question and perfectly valid.
Since you don't want to answer it, I'll make my response regardless.
The answer is: you're been lied to and brainwashed to think that evil is good.

Yet you would say that "one abortion is too many." One abortion could be for any reason, even placental abruption (and considering I'm sure you never looked into issues during pregnancy, placental abruption is when the placenta separates from the uterine wall and doesn't supply enough oxygen, and if it's severe enough, the baby has to be taken out. Yes, there are conditions that affect the baby but not the mother, shocker).
We were talking about averages. The average of 1 abortion per women is too much. Even 1 abortion to million of people is too much unless that abortion was absolutely necessary (the necessity of which I already discussed).

Neither does Bahrain. Oh, and by the way, if India's GDP makes you think they don't have things like internet and electronics, then I'd like to refer you to all the creepy Indians that send me weird DM's on Instagram.
Very simple explanation.
There are more than billion of them, so the amount of them spamming you and women like you is still small compare to the whole population.
Second explanation is rapid development of cheap phones and internet markets in India.

Oh, and Ireland's GDP is 69.3K as of 2017, so GDP=/=abortion stance
You said it yourself that you can't provide me with data about Ireland's abortion statistics in previous years. The necessary data for making comparisons and thus the final conclusions.

If you need more numbers, I just found this whole chart.
What happened to the first few columns?

The article I sent was just before it was legalized (it was just legalized in the end of May, the article was early May).
Then what was the whole point of that article and of you linking it?

Cool.

gettyimages-967837542_0.jpg


It's not your body and not your choice.

The point is I wouldn't even be given a chance to raise my child after prison. You like to act like someone can walk out of prison to resume their daily normal lives. Usually, after you're incarcerated, you:
  • Are unable to obtain a job due to your criminal record
  • Have no money, and your house has most likely been foreclosed if you're living alone (with no one to pay off the cost of living)
  • Have lost custody of your child and even if they saw you, likely have lost all respect from your child
  • Have a hard time re-navigating the outside world
  • Don't have the resources to seek treatment (if the charge was drug related)
  • Can't even go back to school (they, too, do background checks and will not admit you)
It's not weakness, it's literal inability. The point is you have no idea what you're even talking about.
No. The point is that you're a beta-female.
1) there are still jobs that will hire you. If if there aren't there are plenty of things you can do yourself to make money. Learn to make and sell things, and you'll never need someone to employ you. If job is the problem, then you should wait until you die from hunger, or until some hobo kills you.
2) don't live alone. That was already a mistake. Having baby with someone who would leave you like that.
3) that's still shouldn't stop you for carrying about them. And even if they do run away from you, that's okay. It means that they can take care of themselves. Killing yourself is certainly not the solution.
4) please...
5) get resources, or attempt to get them until something kills you
6) you don't need school, especially since you're broke and will not get out of debt.

Looks like we need to dumb it down further.
Prevention is its own chance. Say the birth control fails, or even better: you're on the placebos (in case you weren't aware, there's placebos in there, too, and will not prevent a pregnancy). The man wears a condom. It fails or breaks. The chance of prevention has already been done. You've tried to prevent it, it's already played out. The egg is fertilized. Now your only chances are with the day-after pill.
This will be the third time I'm repeating myself.
With each additional step, the chances increase geometrically. Meaning that they do not stack like 5% + 3% + x. No, they multiply and with each step they get much lower (or higher). Meaning that by the time a woman has passed though all the steps and needs to take the day-after pill, the chances are still 5% of her getting pregnant, but the overall chances (including all the previous steps) are around 0.00001%.

You could hire the best doctor or examiner and they could still have serious trouble telling who has and has not induced their own miscarriages. Not every tumble down the stairs shows, natural ways usually aren't detected at all, and depending on when they even show up to a hospital (or even if), the drug may no longer be in the bloodstream.
That's bs. All we need to do is punish when doctors are certain they know what the cause is. If they can't diagnose the problems, then you can punish the woman.

Fetuses are a group of stem cells, or cells with no assigned role, regardless if it takes the shape of anything yet.
That's a lie.
Every cell a body produces serves some function.
Which is proven by your next statement:
As the fetus develops, the cells are assigned roles.
If the cells didn't have any function at first, they wouldn't develop themselves into some new function. Development is exactly the primary function every cell does, and thus every living form. That's what makes things alive, it's the ability to develop.

And if we really need to get into this argument, if you say we shouldn't be allowed to remove a fetus simply because even fully grown humans are made up of cells, better hope you never get cancer. If I'm your doctor, I legally can't take your tumor out, or my veterinarian relative can't take the tumor out of your pet(s), because we can't remove anything that's made up of cells of any kind. So it's terminal, have fun with your last days on Earth, buddy.
No. People kill animals, or plants everyday. They are all groups of cells, they are all alive. We eat them.
If that tumor had a potential of becoming a fully functioning human being, then we should not remove that tumor from your body.
Since most of tumors do not do that, we should remove them.
Fetuses and tumors are both groups of cells, but the difference is that fetus is a potential human, while tumor is not.
Do you see the difference?

Once again, that malignant tumor is connected to a cancer patient, but isn't their body. Looks like they're dying.
It is. But, the tumor does not have a potential to become a human being.

I'm not sure if you know this, but literally no sane location endorses rape. Also, so what are you saying, we should just blow her situation off because campuses are such safe places?
"No sane location"... there you have it. The location that are "insane" are pro-rape. And those locations exist.
By 'pro-rape' I mean locations with high likelihood of you getting raped.

Oh, this is fun. Not sure if you need my abusive ex's story or the ex-friend that tried to rape me in my other friend's own home, so here you go:
ABUSIVE EX:
Dated a year and a half, no sex at all. He tried to push me to, but I didn't want to. Didn't think he was abusive when we met (seemed like a nice guy, good family), only stayed as long as I did because he threatened to kill himself if I left, he kept me from having friends, and physically harmed me despite constant reminders that he'd protect me.
There you have it.

EX-FRIEND
Never dated, was a friend of a friend I trusted for a long time (trust was lost later on), seemed cool for the first few days I knew him, tried to rape me while I was recovering out of the hospital from nearly dying from a condition I have. Pinned me down, I was lucky enough to have been able to move my leg enough to kick him in the crotch to escape. Was still abstinent at the time, was even way before I met the abusive ex mentioned above. Friends that knew this guy for even longer than I did doubted my story and tried to defend him.
You said "I could've saved myself SO much trouble with past relationships". Doesn't sound like a relationship.
I'm glad you were able to ran away.
I don't know what kind of friends you had.
If I'm getting this correctly, you're saying that rape can happen to anyone anytime. To which I agree. But, I also say that there are many other security steps of individual responsibility that everyone should make.

My son is with my fiance who I've been with for years.
Is that a step-father?

You seem like the kind of guy who dishes out dark humor and expects everyone to get it, but once other people dish out dark humor back, you take it seriously and personally. Those commentators are literally joking, especially because they know it's more anti-abortion propaganda type shit. Chill.
I think they're not. Even if they were joking, there are limits to dark humor. You don't see many comedians joking about raping kids, unless there is some truth to it and to the pedo audience who are laughing.
 
A

Abyss

Guest
I already gave out my 2 cents on previous pages in this thread but as someone who grew up without parents i can only say, if you dont want your kid dont bond with him/her after they are born just to throw them away like trash afterwards. Either send them to adoption or just have no consensual sex if your goal is not to get pregnant forgoing any kind of contraceptive, because accidents might happen, and then its just another life or another possibility of a life that gets wasted because you acted out on instinct instead of reasonable. If you have sex without the goal to procreate in mind and cant be bothered to use any contraceptives because "NAH IM GOOD, THAT ONLY HAPPENS TO OTHER PEOPLE NOT ME LOL" then it's all on your head after that. Dont want them, then dont go out of your way to possibly screw up and ending up making them. Simple as that. I've heard of many cases in my area where women lie and say they were drugged and raped just to get justification to abort, just to have the same story repeat itself all over again later, and thats fucking scummy. Biggest cop out ever. Think with your head instead of your gonads basically.
 

Genevieve

There I was, guts splatted all over my titties...
Jul 17, 2019
45
47
18
The County Morgue
Since you don't want to answer it, I'll make my response regardless.
The answer is: you're been lied to and brainwashed to think that evil is good.
Last I checked, an opinion I've decided on myself with no other outside influence isn't brainwashing.

The average of 1 abortion per women is too much. Even 1 abortion to million of people is too much unless that abortion was absolutely necessary (the necessity of which I already discussed).
Except the abortion-to-woman ratio is definitely not 1 abortion per woman. In fact, it's literally less than 50%. And just saying, your original post DID state that you thought the woman should, in fact, sacrifice herself if her one pregnancy that could kill her is the only baby she'd ever have, as if the fetus holds more of an importance than her, as if she is just a mere husk of a person and the fetus is Jesus himself.

What happened to the first few columns?
The documentation was likely lost. I'm not the guy that compiled the data, don't ask me.

Then what was the whole point of that article and of you linking it?
Because even before Ireland decided to make legal, abortion was still huge, widely done. That 800+ was not counting the ones that were legally done as to save the mother's life (which was the only way someone could legally obtain one before). They never had it legalized, but abortion rates still grew and grew until the dropoff you saw in that chart.

It's not your body and not your choice.
Except it is.
If a woman dies, her whole body dies, too. Heart rate stops, organs shut down, all that.
If the fetus cannot survive outside the mother's body, it's not independent of her body and is, therefore, part of her body.
Once it is capable of surviving independently from the mother, it is its own entity.

No. The point is that you're a beta-female.
1) there are still jobs that will hire you. If if there aren't there are plenty of things you can do yourself to make money. Learn to make and sell things, and you'll never need someone to employ you. If job is the problem, then you should wait until you die from hunger, or until some hobo kills you.
2) don't live alone. That was already a mistake. Having baby with someone who would leave you like that.
3) that's still shouldn't stop you for carrying about them. And even if they do run away from you, that's okay. It means that they can take care of themselves. Killing yourself is certainly not the solution.
4) please...
5) get resources, or attempt to get them until something kills you
6) you don't need school, especially since you're broke and will not get out of debt.
The point is you still have no idea what you're talking about
  1. Not even grocery stores will take you if you have jail time on your record. I'm currently a cake decorator until I can find a job that fits my area of study, and someone tried to apply where I worked. The minute the background check on her came back with a felony, she was instantly turned down. In your example, you said imprisoned for 10 years, which fits the description of a felony, and I wouldn't find a job anywhere. Making and selling doesn't always work out well, and I know because my mother used to be into making and selling jewelry, but barely sold anything. Dying of hunger is too slow and miserable, and a hobo killing me would not be a decent way to go.
  2. Not everyone plans on getting separated/divorced. They'll have a baby, realize things aren't working out after the fact and separate.
  3. You can care about anyone, doesn't mean they'll ever want you in their life ever again. Idk about when you made the association that people who go to jail aren't good people, but I made it pretty young. Example: my fiance's mother was a druggie and a cheater. Never went to jail, but got caught by his father having sex in a Blockbuster with an employee. They divorced and he never wanted and still does not want to see her ever again, and she basically made my fiance have a lack of trust in most women. I think he said he was about 8 years old when it happened, so he wasn't at a stage where he could care for himself. His dad also just remarried last year to a woman I trust far more, just in case you wanted to know.
  4. 10 years in jail. Idk dude, I'd be so used to prison life and all the paranoia that goes with it that quite frankly, I'd have no idea what to do once I'm free. It's pretty legit.
  5. Often, those resources are money, which I will point you back to statement 1 for. While I'm not sure how state aid works, I can only guess they don't look too highly on felons. I'd die before getting any help or any way to get help.
  6. There you have it, no money, no school, no way to leave a shithole lifestyle.

This will be the third time I'm repeating myself.
With each additional step, the chances increase geometrically. Meaning that they do not stack like 5% + 3% + x. No, they multiply and with each step they get much lower (or higher). Meaning that by the time a woman has passed though all the steps and needs to take the day-after pill, the chances are still 5% of her getting pregnant, but the overall chances (including all the previous steps) are around 0.00001%.
No... They really don't... That's not at all how statistics work. I've explained this in the simplest way I could and you still refuse to accept it. Took a whole statistics course to have someone think I don't know how it works. Smdh.

That's bs. All we need to do is punish when doctors are certain they know what the cause is. If they can't diagnose the problems, then you can punish the woman.
You basically just said exactly what's wrong with that system.
They can't come up with a reason as to the miscarriage, unsure if it's self-induced or just happened, so they just punish the woman, even if she truthfully said it was spontaneous because they can't believe what the woman says.

That's a lie.
Every cell a body produces serves some function.
Except stem cells don't until they're given one. In the meantime, they're just there to multiply. That multiplication and openness to receiving a function is why they're used in injury repair and prosthetics. That's it. Their function is TBD based on where they are located, whether they become skin, heart, lungs, etc.
1566337375079.png


Development is exactly the primary function every cell does, and thus every living form. That's what makes things alive, it's the ability to develop.
There are six primary functions and the closest to development is mitosis. That's really it.
1566337468540.png


f that tumor had a potential of becoming a fully functioning human being, then we should not remove that tumor from your body.
Since most of tumors do not do that, we should remove them.
Fetuses and tumors are both groups of cells, but the difference is that fetus is a potential human, while tumor is not.
Do you see the difference?
But your argument is that you can't just remove something on the grounds of being lumps of cells because everything is made up of cells. Using that backwards logic, malignant tumors and melanoma should not be touched. Also, you said it right there: fetuses have the POTENTIAL to become a human being. They are not yet one. Abortion is not taking a life, it's preventing it from becoming a life.

The location that are "insane" are pro-rape. And those locations exist.
By 'pro-rape' I mean locations with high likelihood of you getting raped.
Everywhere has a high likeliness of someone getting raped because rapists don't care where they rape, they just care about the power high. Therefore, by your definition, everywhere is pro-rape. Not even a doctor's office is safe, not even a police station (yes, even cops can be terrible people).

There you have it.
You do realize I said I knew the red flags but was afraid to leave him because he was literally insane, right? Based on how he was with me, I would've thought he'd come after me after the breakup (which he did, in fact, attempt. He showed up at my workplace, luckily while I was not there, and he continues to stalk me to this day). He is why my fiance keeps a gun stashed, since he has a FOID card. He's a legal gun owner and has his CCW permit. While I'm lucky to have found someone genuinely dedicated to protecting me and our son at all costs, he's the only one of him out there.

"I could've saved myself SO much trouble with past relationships". Doesn't sound like a relationship.
I'm glad you were able to ran away.
I don't know what kind of friends you had.
If I'm getting this correctly, you're saying that rape can happen to anyone anytime. To which I agree. But, I also say that there are many other security steps of individual responsibility that everyone should make.
Relationship can mean anything, including friendships and acquaintances. And yes, rape can happen to anyone anytime by anyone, and while there are MANY security steps one can take, it doesn't necessarily mean they will work in the situation they're in.

Is that a step-father?
No, my fiance is the biological father of my son.

I think they're not. Even if they were joking, there are limits to dark humor. You don't see many comedians joking about raping kids, unless there is some truth to it and to the pedo audience who are laughing.
You'd be surprised how often rape has been used as a punchline. Daniel Tosh has had to apologize to the public for a rape joke, Dapper Laughs had a gig cancelled after 1,000 people signed a petition against him after he made a joke that someone was "gagging for a rape." If you need to see how bad dark humor can get, watch Fire In The Maternity Ward on Netflix (it's done by a comedian named Anthony Jeselnik). You can probably already tell it's pretty dark from the title (and I made the mistake of watching this not long after having my son, stupid idea, pregnancy brain fog sticks around a bit). And if you need more personal experience in seeing how people can get dark, I've had someone joke to an anti-abortionist that they were getting their 10th abortion that week. So yes, trust me, they were, in fact, joking. Dark as all fuck, definitely.

Personally speaking, while I'd never get an abortion (and never have), I respect other people's decisions if they choose to because it's not my place to judge, regardless if it's because the mother's at risk, the fetus is, or they just aren't ready financially or in life. And adoption is a literal heartbreaker because the moment you give birth, maternal instinct hits like a fucking boulder.

But from my own experience being pro-choice, no, it does not mean I would mosh pit-style stomp on a fetus or toss it to a wall and see if it sticks. Then again, I know you're gonna use this one against me, I'm also a person of science and know to treat organisms with respect, even treating a fetal pig with care during dissection. Just how it is.
 

Lorencio

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Except the abortion-to-woman ratio is definitely not 1 abortion per woman. In fact, it's literally less than 50%.
You were saying something about how 2 is average for a woman, but wasn't sure about what.

And just saying, your original post DID state that you thought the woman should, in fact, sacrifice herself if her one pregnancy that could kill her is the only baby she'd ever have, as if the fetus holds more of an importance than her, as if she is just a mere husk of a person and the fetus is Jesus himself.
This is what I said:
It should only be legal in case if it threatens the mother's life and that only if the mother is capable of giving birth to many more babies. If she is incapable, she should be forced to give birth even at the expense of her own life.
If the woman is NOT fertile, she should be forced to give birth. I even baced down on this statement later on. I'm still reconsidering this one.

The documentation was likely lost. I'm not the guy that compiled the data, don't ask me.
Well, you're the one who's using and linking to that data. That information is crucial for making good comparisons.

Because even before Ireland decided to make legal, abortion was still huge, widely done. That 800+ was not counting the ones that were legally done as to save the mother's life (which was the only way someone could legally obtain one before). They never had it legalized, but abortion rates still grew and grew until the dropoff you saw in that chart.
Ok, got it.
If I understand correctly, you're saying that women will have abortions regardless of its legality, so it's better to have them do it legal to make it more safer for them. Which I agree with, however the problem I also mentioned is that what's the point of making it illegal if they can just get a train ticket and have an abortion in nearby country.

Except it is.
If a woman dies, her whole body dies, too. Heart rate stops, organs shut down, all that.
If the fetus cannot survive outside the mother's body, it's not independent of her body and is, therefore, part of her body.
Once it is capable of surviving independently from the mother, it is its own entity.
So if I have a parasite living off of me, the parasite can not exist on its own. It needs a host, and by that dependence that parasite is also me, as long as it's part of my body. It's not its own entity with its own life, it's me and my life. By having parasite in me, I'm the parasite.
The fetus (just like parasite) is alive with his own body and life. Until that fetus is developed, it needs a host.

The point is you still have no idea what you're talking about
  1. Not even grocery stores will take you if you have jail time on your record. I'm currently a cake decorator until I can find a job that fits my area of study, and someone tried to apply where I worked. The minute the background check on her came back with a felony, she was instantly turned down. In your example, you said imprisoned for 10 years, which fits the description of a felony, and I wouldn't find a job anywhere. Making and selling doesn't always work out well, and I know because my mother used to be into making and selling jewelry, but barely sold anything. Dying of hunger is too slow and miserable, and a hobo killing me would not be a decent way to go.
  2. Not everyone plans on getting separated/divorced. They'll have a baby, realize things aren't working out after the fact and separate.
  3. You can care about anyone, doesn't mean they'll ever want you in their life ever again. Idk about when you made the association that people who go to jail aren't good people, but I made it pretty young. Example: my fiance's mother was a druggie and a cheater. Never went to jail, but got caught by his father having sex in a Blockbuster with an employee. They divorced and he never wanted and still does not want to see her ever again, and she basically made my fiance have a lack of trust in most women. I think he said he was about 8 years old when it happened, so he wasn't at a stage where he could care for himself. His dad also just remarried last year to a woman I trust far more, just in case you wanted to know.
  4. 10 years in jail. Idk dude, I'd be so used to prison life and all the paranoia that goes with it that quite frankly, I'd have no idea what to do once I'm free. It's pretty legit.
  5. Often, those resources are money, which I will point you back to statement 1 for. While I'm not sure how state aid works, I can only guess they don't look too highly on felons. I'd die before getting any help or any way to get help.
  6. There you have it, no money, no school, no way to leave a shithole lifestyle.
If this is the furthest your mind can expand into possibilities and opportunities, then so be it. I see all those points bit different, but I don't think pushing it on you will do any good.

No... They really don't... That's not at all how statistics work. I've explained this in the simplest way I could and you still refuse to accept it. Took a whole statistics course to have someone think I don't know how it works. Smdh.
We are talking about chances, not statistics, here. If you understand that you have less chances of flipping a coin and getting heads two times in a row, then you can understand my statement. Let alone 6 times in a row. And that's just with a flip coin where chances are 50-50.
Think about tossing a cube and getting number 6 five times in a row. What are the chances of that?

You basically just said exactly what's wrong with that system.
They can't come up with a reason as to the miscarriage, unsure if it's self-induced or just happened, so they just punish the woman, even if she truthfully said it was spontaneous because they can't believe what the woman says.
You did previously said that women are punished for miscarriage without poiting out that they do it only IF they can diagnose that it was her doing it. Knowing that, I'll take this statement with great suspicion.
If that is true, then the law and practice should be changed.

Except stem cells don't until they're given one. In the meantime, they're just there to multiply. That multiplication and openness to receiving a function is why they're used in injury repair and prosthetics. That's it. Their function is TBD based on where they are located, whether they become skin, heart, lungs, etc.
Exactly. Every cell produced is done so for some purpose.
"Stem cells are cells with potential (read function) to develop into many different types of cells in the body. They serve (read function) as a repair system for the body.

There are six primary functions and the closest to development is mitosis. That's really it.
No.

But your argument is that you can't just remove something on the grounds of being lumps of cells because everything is made up of cells. Using that backwards logic, malignant tumors and melanoma should not be touched.
No my argument is that we should prioritize between certain groups of cells. Groups of cells of fetus are more important than groups of cells of some plant.
My argument is a response to the pro-abrotion argument about fetuses just being groups of cells and thus are not really all that valuable and not fully "alive" or what not. They're the one making it okay for me to kill them, since they are just a group of cells.
We don't do this, because some groups of cells are more important than other groups of cells.
Humans > non-humans
Fetus is a human. Human fetus.

Everywhere has a high likeliness of someone getting raped because rapists don't care where they rape, they just care about the power high. Therefore, by your definition, everywhere is pro-rape. Not even a doctor's office is safe, not even a police station (yes, even cops can be terrible people).
Yes, but not the same amount of likeliness.
It's more likely that I'll get raped in prison, then in my own home.
It's more likely that you'll get raped in some Swedish Muslim ghetto, then you're are in some other normal place. That doesn't mean that you wont get raped anywhere else, it just means that it's LESS likely. Not all places are equal in rapes amounts.

You do realize I said I knew the red flags but was afraid to leave him because he was literally insane, right? Based on how he was with me, I would've thought he'd come after me after the breakup (which he did, in fact, attempt. He showed up at my workplace, luckily while I was not there, and he continues to stalk me to this day). He is why my fiance keeps a gun stashed, since he has a FOID card. He's a legal gun owner and has his CCW permit. While I'm lucky to have found someone genuinely dedicated to protecting me and our son at all costs, he's the only one of him out there.
I understand. You were fucked from the start.

Relationship can mean anything, including friendships and acquaintances. And yes, rape can happen to anyone anytime by anyone, and while there are MANY security steps one can take, it doesn't necessarily mean they will work in the situation they're in.
I agree.

No, my fiance is the biological father of my son.
That's good.

So yes, trust me, they were, in fact, joking. Dark as all fuck, definitely.
I saw an image of a woman who's collecting her fetuses in plastic bags and bragging about it on Twitter? Is that a joke? And if it a joke, should it be allowed?
I mean just look at gore, many people are joking and having fun while they are killing other people. That doesn't make it any less bad.

Personally speaking, while I'd never get an abortion (and never have), I respect other people's decisions if they choose to because it's not my place to judge, regardless if it's because the mother's at risk, the fetus is, or they just aren't ready financially or in life.
I think it is. I think it's everyone's responsibility to make a judgement, and the to make the best judgment they can.

I'm also a person of science and know to treat organisms with respect
What about the fetus, when mother is not in danger, of course?
 

Genevieve

There I was, guts splatted all over my titties...
Jul 17, 2019
45
47
18
The County Morgue
2 is average for a woman, but wasn't sure about what
That was a figure I was guessing on because it was before I was whipping out sources, forgetting to mention that there are also a fair amount of women who do not abort because they don't believe in and/or don't support it.

If the woman is NOT fertile, she should be forced to give birth. I even baced down on this statement later on. I'm still reconsidering this one.
If the woman isn't fertile in the first place, she likely wouldn't have been pregnant in the first place. For someone with fertility issues to have a baby is not easy or common. My aunt has fertility issues and it was exhausting for her to find every possible way to have my cousin. Several doctors, fertility shots, the whole bit. Took years for them to finally get two lines on a test.

Well, you're the one who's using and linking to that data. That information is crucial for making good comparisons.
I am the person linking to the data, but it does not mean I can explain holes. All I can figure is lost data.

If I understand correctly, you're saying that women will have abortions regardless of its legality, so it's better to have them do it legal to make it more safer for them. Which I agree with, however the problem I also mentioned is that what's the point of making it illegal if they can just get a train ticket and have an abortion in nearby country.
Which brings me to one of my main points: there is no point to making it illegal. People will get abortions whether it's legal or illegal, safe or will 100% guaranteed kill them. They'll go to whatever length. And the people who have gotten abortions or have had their children get them is even more shocking: they'd even betray their own faith. There's been people who were so Christian that you'd think they could tell you any bible verse (English or Latin) without even needing to look back in the physical book that have either sent their children to get an abortion (whether at a clinic or an under-the-table one) or gotten one themselves.

So if I have a parasite living off of me, the parasite can not exist on its own. It needs a host, and by that dependence that parasite is also me, as long as it's part of my body. It's not its own entity with its own life, it's me and my life. By having parasite in me, I'm the parasite.
The fetus (just like parasite) is alive with his own body and life. Until that fetus is developed, it needs a host.
It's not for a while that the fetus really is its own life, and you're not necessarily what's inside you. If I have a tapeworm living inside me, that doesn't make me a tapeworm. It makes me a human that needs some medical attention because that tapeworm will more than likely kill me.

As for fetuses, they're basically just part of your body until they can survive independently from the mother's body. Difference between a fetus and a parasite: the parasite usually has a means of survival before coming to you, and doesn't necessarily need to feed off you specifically, but you were merely a convenience to them. Just right there and available. A fetus cannot live independently of the mother and if the mother dies, it loses all ability to survive. Think of it this way: when the mother dies, her organs stop, her brain stops, her heart stops, and every cell on her body dies and decays. So does a fetus's unless it is at the stage where it can survive independently of the mother. However, if the mother dies but the fetus is still alive, it's a major race against time to get it out and get it to a NICU fast (especially if it's been born before its lungs get primed for breathing and swallowing, and also take note that the placenta would also stop working completely since that's what brings that attachment aside from the umbilical cord, so this fetus would lack an oxygen supply)

If this is the furthest your mind can expand into possibilities and opportunities, then so be it.
That's just how the American prison system was built. No reform, no way of helping them adjust to normal life, and no possible way to let someone live a normal life after being released.

We are talking about chances, not statistics, here. If you understand that you have less chances of flipping a coin and getting heads two times in a row, then you can understand my statement. Let alone 6 times in a row. And that's just with a flip coin where chances are 50-50.
Think about tossing a cube and getting number 6 five times in a row. What are the chances of that?
Except, like I said, the chance of prevention of fertilization (BC) and chance of expelling the fertilized egg (Day-after pill) are two completely independent events (despite the failure of the birth control leading to the need for a day-after pill). The events dependent on each other would be the multiple forms of birth control because they're making it less likely for fertilization. The day after pill is simply a chance on its own that would occur after the result of the chance of prevention has been decided on.

Here's a food example:
If I go to Olive Garden and get just a pasta dish, say I'm satisfied after a bowl of pasta from there (not fully full, but not starving, also please note this is totally hypothetical and I would probably vomit if I tried to eat that whole bowl of pasta lol). The chances of me wanting dessert are less and less if I go ham on some breadsticks, too. I get full, I'm loaded with carbs, and I decide to pay the tab, go home and sleep. I wake up the next morning absolutely starving for breakfast. The amount of food from last night is no longer going to matter because it's been eaten, digested and probably already headed out.

If those events were dependent on each other, my chances of wanting food after dinner would be, say, 5% (assuming I didn't vomit from eating way too much), so my chances of wanting breakfast would still be at 5%, and same with lunch, and dinner. I'd never eat again, basically.

You did previously said that women are punished for miscarriage without poiting out that they do it only IF they can diagnose that it was her doing it. Knowing that, I'll take this statement with great suspicion.
If that is true, then the law and practice should be changed.
They punish women even if they can't find the diagnosis because they just assume it's self-induced. And I agree, changes would need to be made, but let's also be realistic: should we really put a grieving mother up on trial in the first place for losing her baby that she wanted to have? Or a different kind of grieving mother who didn't want a baby but felt guilty that they did what they did?

Exactly. Every cell produced is done so for some purpose.
"Stem cells are cells with potential (read function) to develop into many different types of cells in the body. They serve (read function) as a repair system for the body.
The reason stem cells have that purpose is because they don't have an initial one.

I literally showed you all 6 functions in that photo the screenshot provided.

No my argument is that we should prioritize between certain groups of cells. Groups of cells of fetus are more important than groups of cells of some plant.
My argument is a response to the pro-abrotion argument about fetuses just being groups of cells and thus are not really all that valuable and not fully "alive" or what not. They're the one making it okay for me to kill them, since they are just a group of cells.
We don't do this, because some groups of cells are more important than other groups of cells.
Humans > non-humans
Fetus is a human. Human fetus.
Okay, so you're saying we should prioritize cells of living beings. So we should stop eating plants, cutting trees, eating meat and eggs, and not even mess with water because there's living single-cell organisms inside of unfiltered water. And yes, I see the "humans > non-humans" but really all we are is a fancy type of animal, which would put us on the same level as other animals, so looks like we all have to go vegan.

Yes, but not the same amount of likeliness.
It's more likely that I'll get raped in prison, then in my own home.
It's more likely that you'll get raped in some Swedish Muslim ghetto, then you're are in some other normal place. That doesn't mean that you wont get raped anywhere else, it just means that it's LESS likely. Not all places are equal in rapes amounts.
Likeliness =/= frequency. Just saying.

I saw an image of a woman who's collecting her fetuses in plastic bags and bragging about it on Twitter? Is that a joke? And if it a joke, should it be allowed?
I mean just look at gore, many people are joking and having fun while they are killing other people. That doesn't make it any less bad.
Oh LMAO I know EXACTLY the photo you're talking about. I would've put it in here, but I literally can't find it, I even looked way back in my Facebook groups. Shame.

Those aren't human fetuses, dude. I can tell you and assure you with great confidence that she was also joking. If you wanted to know what those were, that was a 6 pack of individually wrapped frozen thawed pinkie mice to feed reptiles. I used to get those EXACT mice from PetCo for my snakes; they're on fuzzies now. Next time I pick up food for them, I can show you the box they're in and the mice inside, which you'll find quite familiar. Or, if you want, the fuzzies I have in the freezer are in the same type of box and same individual packaging (although these smell way worse than the pinkies) if you need a photo for proof now. Just note, these won't look EXACTLY the same because fuzzies are one size up from pinkies and they'll have some stubble of tiny furs (thus the name).

But honestly, comedy holds really no bounds. It's just satirical shit, whatever gets you to laugh. It can be as PG or god-awful as it wants. Me jokingly editing a guitar onto someone's corpse in a crime scene photo on here because she died looking like she was air-guitaring was pretty amusing to me, but doesn't make it any less disturbing or wrong. Comedy's limitless.

What about the fetus, when mother is not in danger, of course?
I merely spoke for myself, and I've already given my personal piece on that. I would personally never have an abortion, but if someone else is to get one, it is not my place to judge because I do not know her circumstances and situation. It's easier to judge someone than to be understanding of them. Similarly, realize a lot of places that do dissections have to remind those doing the dissecting to be respectful because a few idiots had to ruin it for everyone else, exactly also why everything has a choking hazard label.
 
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